"13 Reasons Why" (Netflix)

Totally. Especially Clay. He messed up but everyone screws up.

My comment was kinda rude. I knew what you meant but I get irritated sometimes when people cover up the ugliness with euphemisms or talking around it. I'm sorry.
My kids always tell me, mom you get offended to easy.

 

An unhappy teenage girl probably wouldn’t have the same sense of perspective on these matters. I don't think any kid anywhere has ever said "Oh they're just kids being kids."

The idea of the tapes was a gimmick to give the book and then the show a structure and a hook, but it’s at least somewhat novel even if it’s not that believable (Cassette tapes? In 2017? Or even 2007 when the book was published?). The trial in season 2 though, with the lawyers going through all the minutiae of the teen drama, just feels like a contrivance so they can rehash the events of season 1 and give Katherine Langford more scenes.

 

I'm enjoying it mostly cause I love court room drama. Even though it's very unrealistic court drama.

 

I think, in an early voiceover, she mentions why she used cassette tapes (it's 2018 and we still have vinyl records), but I don't recall the specifics. Also, on the first tape, she says something like 'on whatever device you're listening this on...", acknowledging the multiplicity of technologies available. It was just her choice.

 

I finished the first season last night and it was harrowing. I never expected them to show Hannah's death but I'm guessing the producers didn't want to romanticize her decision in any way. It was tough to watch. The performances throughout were excellent. The series is so dark that I thought of quitting a couple of times but I'm glad I struck with it.

 

Season two is darker still and the character Clay is even more annoying!

 

I think the wrong person committed suicide.

 

I really don't see why anyone would think this show glamorizes suicide. (Many made this claim during the first season.) Her death scene was anything but glamorous, and look at how many lives were ruined.

 

Welp, I called the "ghost" thing where Hannah is concerned last year. You can't blame the producers(or maybe you can), because of Hannah's popularity as well as Katherine Langford being awfully easy on the eyes .

The dialogue is still rather pedestrian, but as crazy as it sounds, I feel like the trial lends itself to being drawn out over 13 episodes.

One thing I noticed about both this season and last is the production's obsession with that electric shade of blue. It's everywhere, not just the school. It's the color of books, Beats headphones, clothes, you name it. They really hit you over the head with it.


Dan

 

LOL, I didn't notice!

 

I think the concern is that it plays into thoughts and fantasies suicidal kids have like, “everyone will be sorry when I’m dead” and “now everyone will be talking about me” ... Hannah takes her own life and through her tapes becomes the centre of everything at the school, with everybody regretting how they treated her and reminiscing about her. Of course the show doesn’t depict any of this as being a positive thing but just putting it on screen is “problematic” enough for some people.

 

Clay and Tony both annoy the **** out of me.

I thought the first season was great, but thought the 2nd season was uneven and rudderless without its tape side gimmick to organize the story around. Didn't care for it at first, then started to get into it a few episodes in, but really hated the ending. I thought it was irresponsible, insensitive and mostly just unrealistic and dumb. Luckily, someone at the dance was smart enough to not listen to Clay. And Tony should be arrested.

 

I really liked season 1 for a variety of reasons.

It was all I could do to make it through season 2. I only finished it because part of me felt like I just had to. I kept waiting for it to get better. My god season 2 was a complete waste of time.

 

Then you'll be delighted by this news!

‘13 Reasons Why’ Renewed For Season 3 By Netflix

 

I have taken an interest in 13 Reason Why as someone who was severely bullied at school (a long time ago now), has bipolar, and studied film and TV, and still write about it. What I have found most interesting is adults' reaction to the series. Should it have been made, we are asked. Did it need a second season? I wonder how many times adult critics talk about series aimed at them in terms of whether it needed to be made or not? Do we need season 8 of Suits, or season 230 of Supernatural? If they are not needed, why not just take them off the air?

I've also seen some of the complaints aimed at the show by parents: "my child of 12 was traumatised," one newspaper reports a mother saying. Is that the fault of Netflix or the fault of a mother who isn't keeping an eye on what shows her kids were watching? Would it make the news if her 12-year-old had watched a horror film and been traumatised? It's not like there aren't warnings about the series. And it's rated 18 in the UK, and presumably the equivalent in the US. Parents have a responsibility to keep an eye on what their kids watch.

I'm not denying the series is flawed - and, at times, heavily flawed. But it is also surprisingly realistic with regards to what is happening in schools, and the way that our youth are being failed by the schools, the system, and even the health service. Bullying is more prevalent now than it ever was thanks to social media (or, rather, the people who use it). Mental health issues aren't picked up early, and when they are there often isn't resources for kids to get the help they need. And let's not forget about the failing court system, which is really exposed in the final episode of season 2.

It seems to me that adults are upset about the series most of all because it highlights so many things that are threatening the wellbeing of our kids. How more truthful can a series be than the final moments of season two when Tyler is at the school and Clay says to him that his planned actions are pointless - adults will talk about him for a week and then forget about it? We know that's true.

But it seems to me that the reasons that adults have a problem with the series is that it paints them in a worse light than anything that the teenagers do.

Even beyond that, I think the critics of season 2 already had their knives out and sharpened even before they saw the series. No other series that I can think of has dealt with these subject matters in such a serious and detailed way, flawed or not. There are complaints about the graphic rape scenes, but compare that to a previous series dealing with sexual assault for the same audience. Glee, for example. In one episode a leading male character opens up to his friends about being molested by an older woman when he was a child. The response he receives from one of his friends is that he should think himself lucky as it is most teenager's fantasy. And that is it. It's never mentioned again. Where were the complaints about that treatment of sexual assault?

13 Reasons Why is, I think, just the flavour of the month for the critics to dig their knives into. There is much wrong with the series, I admit, and sometimes it misjudges things wildly (most notably at the end of season 2), but at least it's trying to deal with such things and get people talking (while, at the same time, remembering it is also entertainment and not an infomercial). What other show out there is trying as hard to get this stuff out in the open?

 

Wow, the assault scene in the last episode of season 2 was beyond brutal (but also highly unrealistic in its aftermath, which I won't go into for those who haven't seen it.) I'm finished with this series, though: I can't watch another minute of those extraordinarily obnoxious "teens"! (Are any of them still actually in their teens?)

 

*Contains possible spoilers*

And that's half the problem. The teens in the series have been called obnoxious, self-obsessed, melodramatic and exasperating by various critics. It's hardly surprising that teens don't come forward and air their problems, but instead take the only way out they can see, if they are viewed in this way by adults.

I don't think the sexual element of that assault was as shocking or as graphic as many are making out, as it's nearly all implied once you get to that moment, but the violence in the minute or so leading up to it certainly was brutal. But there are issues here, most notably that, despite 12 hours coming before it, nobody saw that scene coming, and that is a problem with the writing. That aggression, or the nature of it, didn't seem a natural progression of events for the characters instigating it. As for the aftermath, I'm not sure how unrealistic it is in principal, and Tyler's actions (or attempted actions) at that point were signposted way back in the early stages of the first season. It's not like audiences didn't know what was coming Tyler's behaviour and, at various points, the adults' encouragement on that behaviour. SOMETHING makes these things happen in America with alarming regularity, and Tyler's story is just an examination of one route to those events. I agree though that Clay's part in that final sequence of season 2 is highly unrealistic.

On the other hand, there was a VERY similar scene in a short film from about fifteen years ago called "Boys Grammar," which has been issued on a number of gay-themed short film compilations on DVD. That is far more explicit from the sexual point of view, and the scene goes on for longer, and I would be very surprised if the makes of 13 Reasons Why didn't admit they had seen that film at some point and that their own sequence was heavily influenced by it. You can find "Boys Grammar" in full on Youtube (look for "boys grammar full version") if you want to compare the sequences but i'm not going to link to it here as it really is quite shocking. Obviously don't look it up either if you havent seen episode 13 of season 2 of 13 Reasons Why.

All of that said, as I pointed out in my previous post, 13 Reasons Why didn't shy away from a growing problem (male on male assaults in schools), and dealt with it in a far more serious fashion than a previous teen series. According to associated press, there were 17,000 sexual assaults by school-aged students in America over a four year period, and of course many more than that go unreported (see the news report below). So, is 13 Reasons Why wrong for showing in graphic detail exactly what is going on in schools on a regular basis, or are people wrong for not wanting to be made aware of it? Don't get me wrong, I think they made a huge mistake by not somehow building up to this in any sensible way with the series, but should we be complaining because we're shown realities we don't want to see?

AP uncovers 17,000 reports of sexual assaults at schools across US

 

I meant the medical problems that should have been a result, not Tyler's actions.

 

Ah, sorry. Yes. I think you're right in that respect. I thought that was a bit odd too. And perhaps that was another issue with squeezing an apparently new storyline into the final episode. And that final episode was a complete mess for all manner of reasons!

 

I LOVED season 1. I thought it was incredible on many different levels. I've been a high school teacher for 21 years and the season was mostly true to what high school life is like, at least from how I remember it as a student and how I see it now as a teacher. It was well written and I couldn't wait to watch the next episode. It was powerful.

Season 2 was the opposite for me. Much of it was incredibly corny and cliched. It was hard to make it through the season. I almost gave up in the middle of the season. And I was someone who was really looking forward to it. I'll give season 3 a chance and hopefully the season can redeem itself.

 

I just can't work up the enthusiasm to watch season 2 yet. My son who is 16 and in fact who introduced me to Season One, says S2 is not nearly as good.

Now, Stranger Things and Orange Is The New Black? Counting down the days.

 

I agree Season 2 struggles at various points, but for me it was the first and last episodes, both of which I thought were pretty appalling for all kinds of reasons. 13 episodes was certainly three to many, but the same could have been said about the first season, although that had an excuse for dragging it out over that many. Another option would have been to shorten each episode in season 2. They didn't have to be 55 minutes or so. 45 would have made it all a bit tighter.

 

Much less 70 minutes for the finale!

 

Indeed!

Sadly, I feel I can't talk about the finale here because it would spoil it for those that haven't seen it. But anyone who has seen it can read my comments at the following two blogposts:

In Defence of 13 Reasons Why

“A Bunch of Self-Obsessed Teens”: Adult responses to 13 Reasons Why

 

I rewatched the first season in anticipation of the second, and even started rereading the book. I can sum up my thoughts on season 2 with one word. Horrible.

As much as I loved the first season, I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to watch a third season. What the writers did to these characters and this story is criminal.