1998 Steely Dan Remasters

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by audiodrome, Dec 24, 2009.

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  1. mark f.

    mark f. Senior Member

    What do you mean first and second run? Do you mean the difference between the first run and the 1991 remasters? - both of these came in the plaid back art work at one point. If that's what you mean then there is a way to tell the difference. The catalog number in the hub of the CD starts with "37" and the remasters start with "31". For Can't Buy a Thrill I can tell you that the 1991 remaster sounds pretty bad. If its a "37" catalog number (be sure to check the hub, not the artwork) then grab it.
     
  2. silvertrees

    silvertrees Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
     
  3. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    I just don't hear too much trouble at all, and like I said I have a couple of Japanese mini-LP remasters that are super bright so it's not that my hearing is shot. I've been a proferssional recording engineer for 25 years so I listening is my job. On this forum it seems like you can't have a preference for bright CDs without feeling like you're inferior in some way. Who's to say what's right anyway?

    To me, they sound warm and full. :)

    I was just curious as to what people disliked about the remasters because I couldn't hear anything wrong with them.
     
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  4. mark f.

    mark f. Senior Member

    If it says "Manufactured in Japan..." on the disc then you don't even need to look at the hub. :righton:

    My plaid back CD has the 31192 catalog number but the 37040 cat number in the hub. So hopefully you'll get lucky.
     
  5. OK, I stand corrected, maybe the person who explained to me that the wrong single master was pulled when the box set was compiled was wrong.
     
  6. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Yes, on the Citizen Dan box set.
    They were given the original master tapes, as far as I know. It could be that Nichols regards those as "incorrect", and only his digital copies as "correct".
     
  7. pdenny

    pdenny 22-Year SHTV Participation Trophy Recipient

    Location:
    Hawthorne CA
    Paul, you really need to let those us of who've been here longer than you tell you what you should like. :angel::rolleyes::laugh:
     
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  8. steeler1979

    steeler1979 Darren from Nashville

    Location:
    Nashville,Tn. USA
    yeah when we want your opinion we will give it to you! ;) (tongue in cheek)
     
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  9. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    I've been here since the beginning too so I guess I'm hopeless! :D
     
  10. According to Nichols, MFSL was given EQ'ed tape copies, and Gaucho had been copied at the wrong speed.

    I never got to chime in on the Citizen Steely Dan box. I think Glen Meadows did a great on the box. IIRC, he also remastered the Decade gold disc which sounds great as well.

    The way I understand the Steely Dan masters is as follows:

    1985, first pressing (Jpn for US): all discs mastered by Nichols except for Aja and Katy Lied, mastered by Steve. At some point, Steve's Aja and Katy Lied masterings are replaced by Nichols masterings. The basis for Nichols masterings are the digital masters prepared by Nichols and the band in the early 80's.

    1985-1991: masterings made during this period are taken from the original analog tapes instead of from the digital masters that Nichols had prepared. Remastering engineers are unknown. MFSL Aja and Gaucho are also made from these tapes. Nichols indicated these tapes had deteriorated, had been EQ'ed for vinyl, and the tape for Gaucho was played back at the wrong speed when the CD was mastered.

    1991: Nichols catches the mistake and has the CD's remastered, this time from the digital tapes that he had prepared in the early 80's. These CD's have a "digitally remastered" sticker placed on the cellophane. The compilation Steely Dan Gold is released on CD and is taken from the digital masters prepared in the early 80's.

    1993: Glen Meadows remasters the catalog for the Citizen Steely Dan box. At some point, Glen Meadows also remasters the Decade compilation for an MCA gold disc release.

    1998-2000: Roger Nichols remasters the catalog, this time going back to the original analog masters. he later remarks that the CD's made from the original digital tapes prepared by him in the early 80's sound better than these remasters because the masters had deteriorated.

    2000-present: Current CD's are sourced from the 1998-2000 masters. Unknown what tapes were used for the multiple compilation CD's issued during this period. Bob Ludwig remasters Gaucho for SACD (with Elliot Scheiner doing the multichannel remix).

    Also, at some point a DTS CD of Gaucho was released. I do not know who did the multichannel remix nor who mastered it.

    Am I missing anything, or have I gotten something wrong?
     
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  11. Todd W.

    Todd W. It's a Puggle

    Location:
    Maryland
    +1 to all of this. I couldn't agree more and tried to say it in an earlier post. I pulled out Can't Buy a Thrill
    last night to listen again. It's not my favorite Dan but I hadn't pulled it out in a while. I thought it
    sounded great :edthumbs:
     
  12. butch

    butch Senior Member

    Location:
    ny
    Sonically it doesn't sound good,the box that is. Just serviceable if anything. It does sound OK if you hadn't heard the original pressings But not otherwise. the 99 remasters...a perfect example of why audiophiles rip CD apart. Very stark, trebly transfers of the Dan catalog. Search them out on LP and forgo these shrill discs BUT take them out from the library to read the liner notes though.....those notes are absolutely priceless.......Becker and Fagen utilize their bizarre, insular sense of humor to great effect especially on the Aja CD's notes!
     
  13. Downsampled

    Downsampled Senior Member

    According to the liner notes:

    Remixed for DTS by ELLIOT SCHEINER
    Assistant Engineers PHIL BURNETT and JAY RYAN
    Mixed for 5.1 Channel at RIVER SOUND STUDIOS NYC
    20 Bit Digital Mastering by BOB LUDWIG at GATEWAY MASTERING STUDIOS, INC.​
     
  14. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    The first Steely Dan album I ever heard was the 1998 "Countdown To Ecstasy" remaster and it was too bright. I had no reference at the time, I could just hear the brightness and it bothered me.
     
  15. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Well, now you know. In fact, this topic has been discussed many times on this forum in the past. The same conclusions come up. most people dislike the '98 remasters because of how bright they sound, and one or two think they are fine.


    They are anything but warm and full.:shake:

    Now, that box: I had a very negative reaction when I bought it too. I also thought it sounded very bright. However, it's still not as offensive as the '98 remasters. As least the transients aren't smeared on it.

    Many of us highly recommend you seek out the old MCA CDs from the 80s.
     
  16. mrmaloof

    mrmaloof Active Member

    Location:
    California
    The Steely Dan remasters sound fine to me too. Particular highlights are Ray Brown's bass on Countdown to Ecstasy and the glorious Bösendorfer piano on Katy Lied. It's also great to have glitches from earlier versions of Aja fixed on the remasters.

    Notice how most of the criticisms don't refer to musical values - how good does the voice / guitar / piano / bass / etc. sound - but rather to audio features (oh no! actual treble! too little hiss! it's not exactly like my vinyl!). Lots of things can be more important than music in these discussions, especially collectability.

    - Joe
     
  17. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Well, of course no one's going to criticize the playing and singing; there's nothing to criticize. Steely Dan's records were darn near perfect in that regard. What's there to whine about in that department?

    Let's also not forget that this is a message forum run by a mastering engineer. Naturally, then, we're going to debate sonics and lament about them when they aren't as good as they should be.

    Ed
     
  18. Alternative4

    Alternative4 One of These Days I'll Get an Early Night

    Location:
    New Zealand
    I might add my 2c to this.

    I like the SHM cd of The Royal Scam.
     
  19. Same mastering as the 1999 reissue. The 37xxx disc is better and one of my favourite CDs soundwise, but The Royal Scam is probably the best of the currently in print remasters. Before several people start to quote that last bit out of context again I'll once again mention that the 37xxx disc is better and that you only need the 1998-2000 remasters for the nice packaging and Becker & Fagen's funny liner notes.
     
  20. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    When comparing a lot of CDs that are supposedly "definitive" on this forum with another brighter remastering sometimes that little bit of extra treble helps bring out the "air" on certain acoustic instruments that is either lost or buried on the so-called "perfect" mastering. To me, that has nothing to do with "educated" hearing. It's a personal preference, plain and simple. Some people prefer darker prints of pictures because of a certain personal aesthetic and some people prefer the shadows to reveal a little more detail. :)
     
  21. The problem with the remasters, especially on Can't Buy a Thrill, is that NR was used, removing a lot of "air" from the recording. Then the treble was jacked up, resulting not in an airier sound, but in a drier, harder sound.

    I think most of the remasters sound OK, but not great, with the exception of Can't Buy a Thrill, which just sounds dead to me.
     
  22. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    Do we know for a fact that NR was used? I compared the remaster of Aja to the MFSL and the remaster of Countdown To Ecstasy to the original MCA and I don't hear any difference in the hiss levels.
     
  23. The only Steely Dan I've heard that definitely has some (although not as much as the Paul McCartney, Genesis and Badfinger discs released around the same time) is the Citizen boxed set. I don't hear any on the original 37xxx discs or remasters.
     
  24. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Some of us like a more natural sound, as in how it was recorded.
     
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