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2 Channel SACD through optical

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by slstokes2216, Feb 27, 2010.

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  1. slstokes2216

    slstokes2216 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    So why won't this work on my 83SE? I have a Cary Exciter DAC, and I'd prefer to use that rather than the DAC in the Oppo, but no go.

    Is there a way to mod this so I can do what I want?
     
  2. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    You can't pass a digital signal for SACD through an optical (or coaxial) digital output. You can only pass a digital signal for CD through these digital outputs. For SACD, use the stereo analog ouputs.
     
  3. theanswer337

    theanswer337 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona
    No player can pass SACD/DVD-A through a coax or optical digital cable. Not enough bandwidth.

    HDMI is the only way to send it out RAW.
     
  4. Is it really a bandwidth problem? I thought that it was digital rights management (DRM) issue. HDMI digital output is allowed because it can't be digitally copied, while optical or coaxial digital outputs are not allowed because they could be digitally copied. The designers of SACD don't want anyone to have access to raw digital data and hence any copyright infringement must be done via the analog route.
     
  5. Feisal K

    Feisal K Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malaysia
    I think there's enough bandwidth to support 2-channel hi-rez*, except that the record companies do not allow it because SPDI/F does not have any copy protection.

    Having said that, I think you can find a DVD disc with 24/96 stereo PCM in the V-layer that can be output on the optical out.

    * look here
    2ch SACD is 5.34Mbps
    2ch 24/96 PCM is 4.39Mbps
    well below limit for SPDI/F.
     
  6. That is correct. I have done this.
     
  7. Feisal K

    Feisal K Forum Resident

    Location:
    Malaysia
    @slstokes2216 - does the Cary Exciter DAC decode DSD?
     
  8. Tony Plachy

    Tony Plachy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pleasantville, NY
    I think the raw DSD SACD signal can also be passed legally on Firewire or i.LINK (IEEE 1394 interface). This is what dCS uses to go from their transport to their DAC. Esoteric also uses it (they call it i.LINK) the same way.
     
  9. bru87tr

    bru87tr Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    I could never understand why people said not enough bandwidth. I figured it was copy protection.

    Fiber has always been able to do large bandwidth.

    Not sure what consumer audio is capable of, but as far as I know fiber in general has a very large capacity for bandwidth.


     
  10. discreplayboss

    discreplayboss Active Member

    Location:
    Orland Park, IL
    Strangely enough, there was a brief time 2 years ago when Sony's firm ware update to the PS3 allowed SACD to output on the optical out, but the glitch was fixed in the very next update just a few weeks later...
     
  11. slstokes2216

    slstokes2216 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    According to the Oppo manual, it's a copyright issue.
     
  12. slstokes2216

    slstokes2216 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    No, I'm sure it doesn't. Wouldn't it be decoded before it hit the optical out? Or is there a big something I'm missing? :confused:
     
  13. Millstone

    Millstone New Member

    Location:
    Port Colborne, ON
    DVD-A is just 24/96 (usually) PCM, so you can use DVD Audio Explorer 2008 and convert to wav or flac or whatever you need to do there.
     
  14. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    No the optical output is digital that needs to be decoded. After decoding the signal is analog. If the DAC can't decode DSD it doesn't matter if the player/transport can output it.

    Unless you have a player that changes the DSD to a PCM bitstream that can be sent through the digital output. Then you aren't really listening to the DSD.
     
  15. I Am The Lolrus

    I Am The Lolrus New Member

    Location:
    LA, CA, US
    its not about bandwidth, its all about drm.
     
  16. theanswer337

    theanswer337 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona
    Yes, DRM. My mistake.
     
  17. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    The primary reason is that SACD does not support digital output via ANY unprotected interface, however, even without this restriction there is no support for DSD in the SPDIF/AES specification.

    As for the use of interfaces other than HDMI, yes, proprietary encrypted solutions by the likes of Sharp, dCS, EMM Labs, Accuphase, etc. using FireWire, glass fiber, etc. have been allowed by Philips/Sony.
     
  18. Not true. There is plenty of bandwidth. The "problem" is that the SACD spec does not allow the data to be passed through S/PDIF purely for copy protection reasons.
     
  19. There is support for DSD through I2S, but digital output through I2S is not allowed for SACD's--at least, I have never heard of it. It all boils down to copy protection.
     
  20. Shakey

    Shakey New Member

    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    Many have mentioned it's DRM, when it really is Sony.
    I get the feeling Sony has pulled another Betamax here.

    They could have made a lot of dough licensing DSD so we could move these onto our music servers. I won't buy a SACD player just to listen to them.

    I'm not holding my breath hoping Sony will ever get their head unstuck from their buttocks, but I wish they would.
     
  21. filper

    filper Forum Resident

    Does that mean I can use that software to make playable CD's for the car from some of my DVD-A's stereo tracks ?
     
  22. Karnak

    Karnak "81-82-83-84..."

    As long as the DVDA has stereo tracks you can. Some, like my Tom Cochrane Trapeze DVDA, does not. I can't find them anyway. So I can extract the tracks and convert to flac or whatever, but because they are such large files; some are hundreds of megabytes; it's not practical to put them on a cd. What I did with my Rumours DVD disc was extract the stereo files, convert them to flac and then Winamp was able to burn them to cd. I've never tried Foobar, but have tried iTunes and was unsuccessful at burning extracted files using that program.

    The end products sound much more full and have more depth than my Rumours cd tracks. And yes, they sound great in the car too.

    I might just make an analog recording of my Trapeze DVDA and convert that to cd. Even then I'm sure it would sound even better than the cd version.
     
  23. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I don't agree. They thought it would appeal to record companies who wanted to protect their artists from piracy. This was a big problem in the late '90s.
     
  24. winged creature

    winged creature Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    If its just copy protection im sure there is a way to bypass it by modding the player
     
  25. dcgl22

    dcgl22 Member

    Well, there is a way to get at a high resolution digital bitstream with SACD's. It's through HDMI. You can "de-embed" a hi rez PCM bitstream with a de-embedder component such as the Atlona AT-HD570 or the Kramer FC-46. While not DSD, this is high resolution PCM. These de-embedders are HDCP compliant and will strip off an LPCM from a HDMI bitstream. The output is a S/PDIF or Toslink connector. I use the Kramer and it's an RCA coaxial S/PDIF connector. I'm running stereo only, not multi-channel.

    Your player has to have the ability to pass this signal and it may take some fussing with the setup menu but it's definitely possible (I'm doing it right now). Check your users manual.

    I'm using the Oppo DV-980H. Here are the menu settings:

    Audio Setup (menu)

    EQ Type = Off
    Sound Field = Off
    Digital Output = PCM
    Audio Tone = 00
    Pro Logic II = Off
    HDMI Audio = LPCM
    SACD over HDMI = PCM
    Dolby Digital Setup = Dual Mono = Stereo
    Dynamic = DRC Off

    My DAC (Lucid DA 9624) is limited to 24/96 resolutions, so I get 88.2 lock on the front panel display indicator. If you have a 192K capable DAC, you should get that bitstream from the de-embedder.

    Something else my (not modified) DV-980H can do is pass a hi-rez PCM bit-stream out of its' S/PDIF output when playing DVD-A's. :thumbsup: I get 24/96 out of it on my DVD-A's. I don't know if this applies to all Oppo 980's, but my version sure does it! If you have DVD-A's and a 980, check it out.

    Hope this helps,
    DanG
     
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