2 Channel SACD through optical

SACD: Stupid Anti Consumer Disc
or Sony Always Complicates Digital

To go back to the topic: players will convert DSD to PCM only if output to HDMI not to SPD/IF.

 

Geoff is right, it is the content owners (this does not usually mean the artist, but rather the label) that insisted that there be killer copy protection and no burners (although there are burners of a sort today). As I was told by Sony engineers DSD was originally developed as a archive format for Sony to use to transfer its analog music library to a "safe" digital format. The idea is that since DSD is so hi-rez and easily down sampled to hi-rez PCM or redbook that it was the best choice for an archive format. When Sony / Philips decided to do SACD as a hi-rez consumer format the content owners came off the wall. They insisted on the best possible DRM protection for fear that if any hacker got to the native DSD data they would have the crown jewels.

According to the Sony guys the DRM copy code and digital watermarks on the SACD discs are the best in the industry. I have no idea if anyone has ever tried to crack it, but it has not been cracked yet. I kind of doubt if there has been much effort to crack it since SACD is pretty much all classical music and classical is not exactly a hot bed for piracy.

There are one bit recorders out there today (TASCAM and Korg). They are not cheap and they are stand alone units. TASCAM can burn to DVD-/+R(W)'s or you can to transfer the data to your computer and burn the disc there. The Korgs you have to transfer to your computer. The disc that are burned are NOT SACD's. There have been threads here that go into this in more detail.

 

No HiRes stereo track on that one.

Thanks for the tip.

 

and what is so "pro consumer" about Compact Disc? It does not include high resolution audio or a multichannel program..

 

I'll go along with that..

Except, when did the pirates go hi-rez?

Seriously, CD - Perfect Sound Forever, or DSD, it's not.

 

1) Extract WAV files from the DVD-A using DVD-A Explorer. Even if the DVD-A doesn't have stereo tracks, DVD-A Explorer can downmix from 5.1 to stereo

2) Use a simple freeware program called "eac3to" to convert/downsample the WAV files from 48 or 96 KHz / 24 bit to 44.1KHz / 16bit

3) Using one of the million CD burning programs burn a CD-Audio with those 44.1 KHz / 16 bit files

4) Play in your car.

I'll start buying SACDs when I can do the same with them i.e. never.

 

Exactly. They crippled the ability to make a safe backup copy, damaging the paying consumer, when the pirates couldn't care less about using a hi-res source for their mp3 files.

 

You are 100% right, the problem is that the engineers who would love to give all the capability you want are not in charge. The suits at the labels are in charge and in their wildest dreams you would pay them not for every CD or SACD that you buy, but forever time that you play it.

 

You don't even have to do any downmixing and/or converting to play an SACD in your car, every new SACD has additional CD layer you can play in your car or rip to your ipod.

 

Thanks for that.

I'll give it a shot.

 

That's probably their ultimate goal with "downloads in the cloud".

 

Well you can but the process for SACD is much more complicated, time consuming and requires an Oppo universal player and an HDMI to DVI+SPDIF breakout box.

 

If SACD had achieved the same level of success as CD, DVD-V or Blu-Ray, the pirates would have gone after it.

The anti-copy requirement was necessary to get the major labels on board. Unfortunately, instead of helping to migrate consumers from CD to secure SACD, they chose to battle P2P, etc., and withdrew support for hi-rez.

You can make a safe backup copy via analog, just like everyone had to do with vinyl, cassette, VHS, etc. There is no reason that cloning MUST be supported in ANY format.

 

When DVD-Audio and SACD were competing in 2002-2004, I read many more complaints about DVD-Audio being cumbersome for requiring a TV and for not being consistent with its encoding than I did for SACD and digital outputs. Audiophiles wanted a disc that was easy to use and sounded better than CD. SACD gave them that. Audiophiles were interested in listening, not so much copying.

(I also like DVD-Audio, by the way.)

As we all know, the RIAA and others in the industry believe that it never stops at the back-up copy. For many consumers, it doesn't.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, a reason I heard that you could not transmit the DSD signal through the digital outputs is that Sony and Philips were concerned about people essentially having and distributing copies of the master tape. The notion was that the DSD transfer on the disc was master-tape-quality. Of course, that can be debated until the cows come home.

You do realize that the CD format was invented in the late '70s, right? There is only so much you can do with the format. This is why we have the hi-rez formats. The CD is not about limiting consumer options. It's limited technology. This is an issue of chronology, evolution, not a conscious choice by Sony and others to limit options for the consumer.

Regardless, most consumers I know have no need for high-resolution audio or a multichannel program. CDs are too much for them. They use MP3 players.

 

I just did a search if SACD can be passed via coaxial or optical and this thread popped up. I would have to assume that the above post was before SHM-SACDs were introduced. It is too bad that SHM-SACDs are not hybrids and that the prices are so ridiculously high. So many great titles available that I would gladly buy if the prices were $30 or under.

Bill

 

Since this thread began, HDMI de-embedders have been introduced as well. Do these convert DSD into PCM when you output the signal from the de-embedder itself via coax, etc.? Or does the DSD stream remain unchanged?