2019 Beatles UK Singles boxed set (Was: "Beatles Mystery Boxed Set")*

I thought it had been established that PPM 45 and LP versions were the same mix, with the only difference being an extraneous noise at the end of the 45?

 

Ask Me Why? No, the 45 is from the delta mono session tape, while the LP is from a delta mono mix from the twin-track session tape. The level of the echo is a bit higher on the LP because of that.

 

could this be next from Apple in 2020?
just a laugh for the day.

​

 

There was only one mono mix of "Please Please Me". The word "remix" can be misleading, as EMI used it when referring to any mix, including the first.

It has been my observation that the "extraneous noise" is a clicking sound on the mono LP version (including the 2014 LP) and the 80s UK recut of the 45 with the -3 matrix, not on the original 45 cuts -1N or -2. I'm not sure what it is but speculatively it could indicate a higher generation of tape, the noise being introduced when it was dubbed.

 

So now that the Abbey Road box is out, guess Ill move on to this thread

 

I've heard Nov 15 for the release date. Anyone else?

@mikecarrera or @maccawings

 

Sounds okay to me.

 

I get it about Ask Me Why. However, my question is about Please Please Me. I thought it had been determined (via careful listening) that the version on the LP and the single are the same, with the exception of some extraneous noise at the end of the LP or single (forgot which). However, Barrett’s notes seem to indicate there was a remix session.

 

Gotcha re: use of term “remix.”

 

There *was* a remix session, to mono, 4 days after the session. That was it though; it wasn't remixed to mono again for the LP.

 

I heard it's been cancelled because people here were making fun of the sleeves

 

Got it.

 

Completely agree that the single version of Ask Me Why was cut from the delta mono tape.

However, my feeling is that Please Please Me was probably also from the delta mono (though Barrett's 'remix from 2T' notation goes against this).

I think that although the session was recorded to mono and twin-track, only the mono tapes were utilised for the single (the 2T tapes only coming into use later for the LP). As there was obviously a problem putting the harmonica overdubs onto the stereo mix, it seems likely to me that the harmonica overdubs were done via a mono to mono bounce (just as they had been done on the single version of Love Me Do). Meaning there was no 2T tape with the harmonica overdub. The 2T tapes were effectively a 'backup' of the live takes (and could be used to redo an unsatisfactory live delta mono mix, if required).

The 'mixing' session for the mono 'mix' of PPM would then be more of an editing session, assembling the best parts of the mono undubbed and overdubbed takes for the single. For the stereo LP mix, I think they instead picked the 'best' complete single take, remixed it from 2T and flew in the harmonica from the mono mix (in this scenario, the only place it existed).

It seems odd that the mono mix (with harmonica) would be remixed from 2T, but then the stereo mix could not be...

Re the stereo mix, there were 3 more 'takes' (16-18) done at that (Feb 1963) mixing session which are surely syncing the 2T tape with the mono mix (for the harmonica parts, then faded down). It's been a while since I studied it but from memory:

Take 16 - sync of first harmonica section then left to play through first verse and chorus.
Take 17 - sync of second harmonica section then left to play through second verse/chorus and getting lucky with the third harmonica section still keeping in time, then left to play through the middle eight.
Take 18 - sync of fourth harmonica section then left to play through until the end, but resulting in the fifth harmonica section at the end being out of time. As this was the longest harmonica section, perhaps this was always going to go out of time anyway (even with another edit).

 

I had forgotten about your idea that the mono mix was from the delta mono tapes. That seems to make sense, although it raises two questions:

1) Has anyone ever compared the echo level between the mono mix and a fold-down of the stereo mix? That would be harder to do than with Ask Me Why, based both on the recording itself and the fact that the mono and stereo are from different takes, but it could possibly help determine if the mono was delta mono or from twin-track.

2) Why is the stereo a *completely* different take, other than the harmonica bits? If the mono was from an edit of a few different basic takes, you would think that perhaps the stereo at least matched one of them. And if the mono was from a single basic take, you would think the stereo would match, especially considering the obvious flub. Is it complete coincidence that they both picked the wrong take(s) *and* completely missed the flub? Or...?

Was a twin-track edit of the best basic takes placed on another reel to facilitate overdubbing...and then mistakenly not placed back onto E48389? Thus requiring an alternate basic track for stereo?

 

My guess is that the mono version was an edit of multiple takes which they couldn't be bothered to recreate from the 2T tapes for the stereo version. And also that maybe none of the takes used for the mono version was good from start to end, hence the use of one 'good' (perhaps the best, start to finish) basic take for the stereo.

They would have maybe got a better result if they had recreated the edit of takes for the stereo, though the flown-in harmonica is not too bad for most of it (it would at least have been a good idea to match the ending of the mono version 'take' though).

Your last point is a good alternate theory. If they made a master 2T edit before the harmonica overdubs, maybe it did get 'lost'.

 

Where I get hung up on the "couldn't be bothered" part is clearly they bothered to do a fairly complex sync (for the time) to get harmonica in the stereo mix. It seems hard to believe they would go through all that effort...but not be bothered to (re-)splice a few takes together, which would have been routine in comparison. And that's assuming the mono *was* an edit of multiple basic takes.

Now, we know sometimes seemingly inexplicable decisions were made. But that one (if it happened) seems particularly odd.

 

Gentlemen, a tip of the cap to both of you. I think I've learned more about the Beatles recordings (and I thought I was pretty knowledgeable) from you two than any other posters. Now back to your discussion....

 

Maybe they couldn't remember? Unless they documented exactly what they did on the mono version (and there the harmonica overdub pieces would probably have different take numbers to the original takes they were taken from), recreating the same edit on another set of tapes (the 2T) might have been tricky.

I still think the mono PPM is a delta mono tape. It seems they were pretty much working exclusively in mono before the first album.

According to Lewisohn in Tune In, the early sessions were recorded thus:

6 June - apparently scheduled to be recorded to mono and 2T, but either they didn't bother with the 2T backup or if they did, it wasn't used and subsequently scrapped (it seems the mono tape was scrapped too, as we only have two tracks from acetate sources).

4 September - mono only, mono tape to tape bounce for vocal overdubs.

11 September - mono only, no overdubs.

And obviously the 26 November session went to both formats. However, it's easy to see that they were really only working in mono up to this point. So I can see that the PPM harmonica overdubs were possibly only recorded to that format.

 

Even if they couldn't remember the exact takes used, nobody noticed the flub?

I certainly find that possible on its own...but I have a hard time simply writing off the alternate take(s) used.

It would definitely be interesting to see any primary source documentation, as opposed to Barrett's notes and Lewisohn.

 

So where does that put the announcement? It’s usually 2 weeks before, right?

 

Probably. But as I said, maybe that was the best overall complete take?

As above, maybe that take was the 'best' and the mono was only superior because it was an edit of different (but imperfect) takes.

Agreed.

 

Again, though, editing was second nature to them. It seems really hard to believe they would be *that* lazy to not be bothered to edit together more than one basic take.

 

True. I find it hard to believe that the mono edit was that complicated. But it's the best I can come up with for now.

Apart from the mono PPM, there doesn't seem to have been much editing done pre-From Me To You. I can only think of PPM and the count-in for I Saw Her Standing There (unless I'm forgetting something).

 

Well...it's not clear. Barrett has edit notation for the stereo Please Please Me and Thank You Girl, but not much else. From Me To You just indicates that take 8 is best, and I Saw Her Standing There and Please Please Me (mono) don't indicate any editing. Nor does She Loves You, for that matter.

That is to say, the lack of "ED" in Barrett isn't indicative of a lack of editing.

 

I think Barrett meant 7 for "From Me to You" as take 8 is the first half of the harmonica overdub.