2021's David Bowie box set 5 (Speculation Thread)*

I think I enjoy Toy is pretty exceptional

 

I do too. It deserves to be released. Seriously it would have been a good album to release around 2007/8 when he was silent for so long, I don't even think it would have hurt the big reveal of The Next Day as it would have been a minor release but welcomed by fans to get them by trough the quiet times.

It was encouraging that they put two of the tracks on NHC in 2014, especially as one was unreleased and the other only available for a very short time as an mp3 download around the time Reality was released.

I'd love a legitimate copy of it.

 

I think Toy sucks the energy out of the original versions of the songs in almost every case. It’s still worth a release because it is a lost Bowie album. But I WISH it was Pin-Ups Part 2. If only it had half that album’s energy...

 

I Agree with Django 216, I suppose the management first announce the third live stream album.....whatever it will be...?
After that announcement, we'll have to wait a while until early September when the smashing news is spread all over us about the fifth box and we finally can read what it will serve....

It will be one of the best days in this horrible year!

 

Boy, there's not much Bowie I want less than videos. Hell, even for the Glastonberry release, I was happy I could save some pennies to get the two disc version - I've already seen the video, and that was enough.

If they want to go big on something new, the most exciting thing would be something with Surround Sound. I'd love it if they began a release program of the surrounds already done for his catalog.

 

I agree . I can see why the label shelved it ( although I'm surprised the label had so much power over Bowie). It's worse then Hours but the good thing was it kicked him in the ass to up his game.

 

At that point, every Bowie album - like it or not - was a Huge Artistic Statement.

"Toy" didn't live up to that expectation really, it was just some new David Bowie songs.

 

In several interviews in the 90's he was quite explicit about his approach to his music at that time. He referred to himself as 'the ultimate recycler' and talked about how he treated his past work like a palette of paint and that each of his older albums was a different colour.

Because of this I tended to see his post Tin Machine albums in exercises in combining 2 or 3 of those different colours. As you mentioned earlier, on Toy Pin Ups was definitely a reference but I also hear Station to Station in there too.

So in my mind Toy is just as relevant as any of his other post Tin Machine albums.

That's my perception anyway and I realize it's just that - a perception. You may look at it differently.

 

That's how I feel about it too - youthful energy has been replaced by middle aged lethargy - quite a turnaround from Earthling three years prior. It's a bit of a slog, but saying that, I still think no-one had any right to tell him he couldn't release it.

 

Good point. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he made his most sure footed record since erm, Scary Monsters after Toy. He definitely used It as a platform to build a better record. For better or for worse there’s no doubt Heathen would have been different if Toy had been released. Plus the cd singles wouldn’t have been nearly so much fun.

 

Toy has one outstanding track, Shadow Man. As for the rest, it didn’t do much for me, and I can see why the record company rejected it. Even the Heathen track, Slip Away, was an improvement on Toy’s Uncle Floyd. And The London Boys, one of his best Deram tracks, really required a younger Bowie voice to totally convince. I believe the Toy leak didn’t have a final mix, therefore was still unfinished. Therefore until a final version is eventually released, what we have is a work in progress.

 

Confession time:
I don't like Heathen very much...
It has its moments with SUNDAY and the great Cover of I TOOK A TRIP ON A GEMINI SPACECRAFT.
The rest doesn't do much for me, I think its overpolished way too soft and lacks focus. Its like all the bad parts of Hours just even worse,
I still wonder what people like about Slip Away or Afraid and A Better Future ranks among my least favorite songs of him pretty high.

Toy has an intresting concept but I actually like the idea more than the execution.
Plus: The Heathen songs are even weaker here...

(Would still buy an official release of Toy)

 

Ok I agree, the tracklist is in my opinion not the best, although on the other hand........ Slow Burn is one of my favorite single's from Bowie. The intro is marvelous as also the way he is singing it....I also like Cactus and I took a trip.....

All together as a trio (Hours - Heathen - Reality) I like this periode, Bowie was showing a lot of energy and positive power in these days, it was most visible in the Reality tour...

 

Maybe it's a matter of having heard Heathen for the first time when it was new and having just gotten into Bowie at the time, but I rather like the album for what it is. Is it a barn-stormer? No. Not remotely.

In fact, I remember being somewhat disappointed by the rather laid back vocal style and somewhat sepia-toned arrangements of the album at the time. Minor deviation: this is one of those albums that sounds exactly like its cover looks, which may be a good or bad thing, depending on your perspective.

Anyway... Much like Adore by The Smashing Pumpkins, this album has grown in stature for me over time. Both of them failed in a non-fatal (i.e. I could still listen to them and sort of enjoy them, but wasn't over the moon) way to live up to the expectations I had for the artist, but both proved to be much more enjoyable over time and I've found myself returning to both quite a bit.

Heathen, in a lot of ways, is a solid musical accompaniment to a summer evening after a day trip. It was a good day and good times were had by all, but the energy is spent and it's time to wind down. In that spirit, the album is 100% successful and those moments still "need" their soundtrack. Obviously, this is totally subjective stuff, but I find it a strength in that album. In a weird way, Reality put me off because it felt less honest than Heathen. To my ears, Bowie didn't sound as sold on trying to rawk out as he did on the more atmospheric material. I'm of a more mixed opinion at this point and there are moments on Reality that appeal to me now far more than they did when it was new (probably assisted a bit by the fact that, with the man gone, we won't get any new music from him to add to the canon), but I look at what he did after Reality, and half feel like my opinion was correct and that he was more "behind" doing atmospheric and dramatic music than he was in trying to reclaim the stadium rock vibe.

I have no idea how an album of Toy would come across in full, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't intrigued by the notion of finally getting to hear the album as intended. The individual tracks we have are great IMO, though I'm speaking as someone who isn't familiar with the originals as that really early Bowie stuff never entered my collection. Obviously, your mileage may vary.

All this said, I'd be stoked to finally get an announcement for a continuation of the box series that moves into this area, but I doubt they'll go so far as Heathen and Reality with this round...

 

No, I don't think so either.
If there will be an announcement for the fifth box, I presume, they skip the Tin machine periode (for all the reasons described here before).

But I really hope for BTWN - The Budha of Surburbia- 1.Outside - Earthling - Ouvrez Le Chien - Live and well - S&V - Recall 5 - and maybe some surprise...(the third live show which is already announced)

If there will be a sixth box *which I hope they'll go till the very end...this will be filled with Hours - Toy - Heathen - Reality and some stuff from the early century years.

And finale I hope for a seventh with TND - Blackstar and all that is left in the vault.
I've read that Tony Visconti said for TND in 2013 they produced 29 songs....

 

TND + TND Extra we get 22
still 7 missing...

 

That's my conclusion as well

I suppose there also more songs from the BS sessions...

 

I think the problem was exasperated as they weren’t even “new“ songs!

 

I like a lot of your takes here even though I loved 'Heathen' from the first time I bought and heard it. 'Reality' is not as good as 'Heathen'-IMO, although it does contain the Best Song(Bring Me the Disco King) on either of these Albums(again IMO, but others here, YMMV).

I always like to read when other Bowie Fans got into his Music, as he has such a large, diverse discography that we all have our own entry point, then work Backwards and Forward from that entry point First Bowie Album. I could probably list my Favorite 5-6 Bowie Albums, but all the other ones would move up or down over time depending on my mood for a particular genre of any Bowie Album.

I first got into Bowie with his Album, 'Black Tie White Noise' and amazed all of the Changes of Music Styles that he went through just from that Album until 'Blackstar'(in addition to all his Albums from the 1960s-1980s). Although, I also bought the 'Singles' 2 CDs Set around the same time as buying 'BTWN', so got an overview of his Earlier Best Songs(I had heard some of them already). Actually, in the early '90s I also found a copy of the 'Sound + Vision' Box Set. Then went back to but his earlier Albums starting with 'Station to Station', which remains to this day, my Favorite Bowie Album(although also love the Art-Rock of 'Low'. 'Heroes' and 'Lodger' Albums and the New Wavish, 'Scary Monsters and Super Creeps' Album and the Pop as Bowie would do Pop of the 'Let's Dance' Album, with the Best Song, 'Ricochet' that Peter Gabriel did not write himself).

I recently completed obtaining all of the Bowie RCA WG CDs, so I am a Happy Bowie Fan("I'm Happy, Hope Your Happy Too" as the man once sang), although those RCA WG CDs are not Audiophile, it is most likely the Best Option on CD we will ever get. I know that Steven Wilson would love to get his hands on Bowie's Albums, but SW Remixes Older Albums and does not Remaster them. Our Host came close at one time having the opportunity to Remaster the Bowie Albums(not sure if both Vinyl and CD Formats and which specific Albums), but at this point the Bowie Estate seems happy with the Visconti Remasters(at least the Albums on the first Box Set, 'Five Years' used the Ray Staff Mastering). I bought some of the Ryko(Early '90s) CDs for the Bonus Songs.

I have only recently started checking back in with this Thread to find out if any announcement was made on any Bowie Box Sets for a Fall 2020 Release, not that we got notice on the next Prince Box Set(SOTT), and had stayed away from this Thread for several Months( think about from January to May this Year), as just seemed like a waste of time to read the same random guesses on what would be in the Next Box Set(if we even get one this year, beyond an Anniversary Deluxe Set for 'TMWSTW' like we got for the prior Album last year, which I would be happy if this is done for all of the Bowie RCA Albums, although one was done in 2010 for 'Station to Station', that was a CDs/Vinyl Combo Deluxe Box Set, or maybe some of these Deluxe Box Sets can contain 2 Albums with several B-Sides, Live Versions of Songs, etc.).

As far as the Next Box Set, I know that I posted much earlier in this Thread(way back in August/September of last year, before I stopped following the replies here for awhile) what I would expect to get and that is everything from 'BTWN' through 'Earthling'(with the typical now Remix of One Album like in past Box Sets so I assume for 'BTWN' or 'TBOS', 1-2 Live Albums-maybe from the 'S & V' Tour and 'Outside' Tour, the Leon Songs from the 'Outside' Recordings and the Recall Album like were in the other Box Sets), as to me, 'Hours', 'Heathen' and 'Reality' seem like a Trilogy, so do not see how it works to include 'Hours' in the next Box Set. At this point, I assume any Tin Machine Music would be provided as a Smaller Box Set, which would work for me, as it is the only Bowie Music, which I have not yet explored outside(no pun intended) of a Few TM Songs.

 

Bowie is an interesting figure for the reasons you mentioned. It's easy in some ways for people with a passing knowledge of what he did to dismiss him as just being a stylistic chameleon or whatever cliche followed him in that regard, but as these various box sets and even more voyeuristic stuff like Conversation Piece reveal, the guy wasn't just some opportunist chasing a paycheck. Love or hate what he was doing at any given time, he was genuinely moved in that direction. I'd even argue that his '80s material was likely borne out of a compromise between wanting to make money and a sense of being able to "play the game" without sacrificing artistic integrity at the same time. Even the Glass Spider tour, for all of its excesses, arguably suffers because it doesn't have the ramshackle charm of the Diamond Dogs tour. If someone had thrown serious coin at making the DD tour a visual extravaganza, it might be spoken of now with the same derisive tone. Who knows? In any case, it was clearly something more than a bone to throw the mob for a payday!

It's funny that you'd mention Station to Station, because that may be the one album of Bowie's that has never really left the upper echelon at any point once I really took it on board. The Ziggy thing loomed large for me when I first started listening to his music, but once I got the Fripp/Belew/prog connection to his later '70s albums, that totally eclipsed Ziggy-mania. At various points, the '90s albums slid into the foreground and eclipsed the "Berlin" material. Anymore, it's a revolving cast with only a handful of albums not really ranking for me. And, if I've learned nothing else, that too can change at any time and a previously dismissed block of material may suddenly reveal its merits. It's an interesting journey, to be sure.

 

I have a question about the Dissonance film of Bowie and Nine Inch Nails that is on YouTube. Does anyone know where this was filmed please?

 

IIRC, 1995-10-18 Phoenix, AZ.

 

Thank you

 

and it's getting worse with every new incarnation. Shame really; good work doesn't need endless self promotion.

 

suddenly the number of pages on this subject lowered from 189 to 187 ?