This isn't worth much but I'm using a Topping D50s with my 3200 and it's fine. I predominantly listen to records so the DAC was just for occasional convenience. Excellent bluetooth connectivity and even more admirable sound when directly connected via USB. Perfectly acceptable for the price for my needs.
I run a CD-S2100 SACD/CD player with my A-S3000. The internal DAC is excellent and, if I remember correctly, there are 3 external inputs for other gear as well. Running my Blusound Node 2i through it proved to be a big improvement. (As a bonus the CD-S2100 is also an excellent disc player!)
Thank you for the inputs guys, ordered Schiit Yggdrasil LIM today. Hope the upgrade will be worth it. Also changed the xlr cabel to mye current Rme dac recently,seems like Yamaha inputs like copper connectors better, Audioquest Red River xlr changed the soundstage to be more smooth and warm.
I have been searching for CD-S2100/CD-3000, but since it is out of production, it will take some time i guess. My experience with Bluesound Node 2i is that it colours the sound even when you use a external dac. I use Yamaha NP-S303 as a streamer, it is very good in my opinion.
I've actually had the opposite experience with the A-S1200--I think it's so neutral that source characteristics really come across. I mean, there is definitely that consistent airy, spacious Yamaha sound, but I hear huge difference between cartridges and DACs, too.
Anybody else not liking the phone stage on their ASxxxx models? I have the AS2200 and the phone stage is weirdly anemic, with scooped mids, which makes distorted guitars sound extra weak. I got a Parasound XRM phone stage and the difference is night and day. Brilliant dynamics, full bodied sound, just amazing. The built in phono stage is truly awful, so bad in fact, I actually think it might be broken.
I know what you mean. I think it's just modern Yamaha natural sound. The S300 has the same sound signature in my experience, and the DAC in the A-S801 is very similar: airy and spacious, and totally forgettable.
What turntable/cartridge are you using? There's no info in your profile so it's hard to offer sound advice. Are you referring to the MM stage or MC stage on the Yamaha? All those details aside, even in quality amps like the A-S Yamaha's, a dedicated separate phono stage should excel by comparison. Built-in phono stages are rarely impressive.
I would agree and am currently using my regular Zphono which still blows away the internal. I am actually considers a XRM when I finally decide which cart I am going to pair it with or possibly a Jc 3 jr but the XRM has gotten a lot of praise for how far it goes , which sounds like it is damn good for the money and probably good enough for my SL1200G that I will be using. Anyways I love the Yammie 2200 !! Everything is great on it including the headphone section BUT the internal phono for some weird reason stinks ! I don’t know why. I heard supposedly the previous generations had better stages and more gain. Who the hell knows why lol
Yes the gain is REALLY low in the phono stage. It's also weird that noone mentioned this in any review I read or watched.
I’m using it with a Nagaoka MP-200, so I’m talking about the MM stage. As others have mentioned, it is very quiet, but also not balanced at all. It’s like it almost completely misses a whole frequency spectrum in the mids, at least that’s what it sounds like to me. Even the built in phone stage on my Technics SL1500C sounds miles better.
The MM gain is shown as 35dB in the specs, which is a little low in today's market, but probably about average in earlier times. The MC gain is around 63dB, but the 50 ohm input impedance isn't suitable for many carts today, and the 2mV overload margin isn't nearly enough for the more normal ~0.5mV output LOMC carts used today.
I didn't spin a lot of records with my A-S3000, but I was very pleased with the internal phono stage when paired with my Project Classic SB turntable with a Sumiko Blue Point No. 2. It was a different, cleaner (and quieter) sound than my Project Tube Box DS phono stage... I wouldn't say one was better or worse, just a matter of preference.
I’m running the internal phono stage on a A-S2100 in my kid’s modest vinyl system (Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Evo/Sumiko Rainier>Yamaha A-S2100>Monitor Audio Silver 100) and I think it sounds fantastic. Would I notice a dramatic difference if I used an affordable phono-pre such as a Lehman Black Cube Statement? If the difference is minor I’m not interested in the extra wires, etc., hence my use of an integrated.
The phono on my A-S1100 is fantastic. I borrowed a Rega pre amp for a couple days (can't remember the model, but it was about a $500 pre amp) and it worsened the sound. I feel like I would have to spend $1000 or more to make it even worthwhile to upgrade the phono section tbh. Maybe I am missing something though. Perhaps the synergy of the Rega didn't work well.
I think that once you get to the A-S1100, they all have the same discrete phono stage. Below that, they are a simple opamp circuit.
This might sound odd, but I'm using a Yamaha R-N602 for my DAC, AM/FM tuner, streaming, and as a 2nd phono pre. That's odd. I have an A-S1100 with an MP-200 and the mids sound excellent to me. I have the following to compare it with: 2M Blue on Pro-Ject Carbon Classic through Yamaha R-N602 phono pre into Tuner in of A-S1100. The 602 is my tuner, dac, and pro-ject preamp. KAB ProS40, AT-VM95ML, and MP-200 I interchange on the SL-1210GR into the A-S1100 phono pre. The A-S1100 is definitely louder than the R-N602, so I have to turn the 602 with the Pro-Ject and 2M up to match. But the 602 and A-S1100 phonos are so quiet and neutral so I'm sticking with them for now. An interesting trick was I had to attached the Project ground to the A-S1100, not the R-N602. I had a Turntable Labs branded Rolls VP29 that was louder but definitely noisier at equivalent volume levels so I went back to the 602. No regrets. They sound amazing.
I am using a Schiit Bifrost 2 and am enjoying immensely, though I'll admit that I have not tried any others.
The A-S1200 phono stage made me think of the Hana EL: beautiful and melodic and refined, but not much body. The midrange just feels amputated/suppressed. I would never say the native phonostage is bad. I just prefer warmer, fuller sound.
Seems like there is a good contingent of people enjoying the phono stage on the AS line. Maybe mine really is broken, it’s just so quiet and anemic, it really sounds bad to me. But to be fair, I do enjoy dynamics, attack, and a good amount of heft or body in my music, so maybe it’s just preference. But man, compared to the headphone amp in there, I am truly disappointed by the phone stage. I’m happy for everyone that is enjoying their amp!
Damn dude. It really may be broken. The phono stage sounds better than the headphone amp in most peoples opinions including my own. The headphone stage is somewhat lacking imo. The only other thing I can think of is that it could possibly be a synergy thing, but these upper end Yamahas play pretty friendly with almost anything. I wish there were a way for you to hear another unit and decide if it is that or if you truly have a broken one.
Have you tried comparing a familiar album with streaming or CD through the amp? Note digital will always be louder. You will have to turn up vinyl until it matches volume to compare properly. I was tempted to get a new phono for that reason but realized they would just be doing the same thing - adding gain. As long as the signal to noise level is good there is no reason not to turn up the AS. Considering how quiet they are I decided to stay with them. My vinyl sounds better than CD and streaming, so no reason to change on my end.
I've actually always had the opposite experience (for me, vinyl is always louder and fuller than digital).
That is interesting. I'd love to hear other people's experiences on this as well. Note, fuller is not equivalent to louder. My vinyl sounds plenty full. It's just lower in volume compared to digital sources on the AS-1100, so I have to turn it up a notch or two, but once the volume is there it's as full if not better. It was the same on the R-N602, and everything I've read has said this is the norm. It's just a different gain level. I also noticed streaming from Spotify is louder than the FM Tuner on the R-N602, so I always turn the volume down a little before switching. The R-N602 actually has dB adjustment per source to compensate, but since I'm using the line out to go into the A-S1100 for amplification I can't set these adjustments.