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2021 Hendrix Release Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by adam_777, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. adam_777

    adam_777 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Duncan BC, Canada
    Alright folks, it's that time of year again. Just one day passed Christmas and we're already thinking what can we add to next year's Christmas list. Like Jim Morrison said "We want the world and we want it NOW." So what do the Hendrix fanatics here have on their wish list for 2021 and what do we think we might realistically see released? EH's track record over the last decade or so has them pretty much releasing new material in every calendar year usually in the fourth quarter, but often we see additional releases earlier in the year either reissues or Record Store Day product. Last year we saw Band of Gypsys get a 50th anniversary re-release, A Dagger Records release of more PPX material and The Maui set that saw two legendary shows released complete for the first time a long with accompanying video and documentary. Pretty great year in my opinion.

    I'll brag a little and say I accurately predicted the last two years fourth quarter releases in the Gypsy's material (although I thought we would probably get the second show, not an entire box) and Maui. But I basically looked at what material was entering into expired copyright's that was known to be in more than one persons hand, so it made those choices seem far more likely. 2021 is going to be harder as in a few days the 50 year copyrights will expire on the last music Hendrix wrote, yet didn't release in his lifetime, so EH's hand will no longer be forced by any of that, they've released or screened what they most wanted to secure, and the other material they must feel confident is in their possession only and won't be bootlegged out from under them, or material that they feel their version will be so superior to they don't care if it gets bootlegged. Either way 2021 will be a much more difficult prediction, here are some of the likely candidates.

    1) 50th anniversary box set of Jimi's final album
    Let's face it EH enjoys anniversary releases. Just in the past 3 years we have gotten ELL 50th, BOG 50th, Groovy Children for the 50th anniversary of those concerts, and Maui shortly after the 50th anniversary of those concerts. Both Cry of Love and Rainbow Bridge will turn 50 in 2021 and First Rays will celebrate it's 25th anniversary in early 2022, so it seems feasible we might see some sort of set commemorating the album Jimi was working on recording and sequencing when he died. Both Cry of Love and Rainbow Bridge received excellent reissues in 2014 and First Rays did in 2010, so it seems unlikely we will see straight up reissues of any of these albums. However I could foresee something similar to the ELL 50th boxset being considered here. For one it would give EH a chance to finally release First Rays with decent sound quality as it has always been derided by fans for that aspect with many preferring to listen to Cry of Love and Rainbow Bridge instead because of it. Another option would be for Kramer to do a 5.1 mix of the material as was done with ELL. We know Hendrix was writing and recording furiously throughout 1970 and a good deal of that material remains unreleased officially that could certainly be an interesting and insightful look into Hendrix's creative process in the final days of his life. EH likes to add in live material to these boxes, so if they choose to go that route most of the professional live recordings from this time have been used, so it would likely be some form of Dagger release if included, but Copenhagen stands out as an excellent show from this time frame that has never been released in any form by EH that could be utilized on the Dagger label for inclusion similar to Hollywood Bowl.

    2) Royal Albert Hall 1969
    If this one waits any longer EH might have to attach a tagline similar to Jurassic Park: 65 Million Years in the Making." Perhaps no material is so frequently cited at the top of fans wishlists, nor has anything being so long hinted at or speculated upon. Reading old articles from 2009 it seemed the release of RAH was imminent, then it vanished without a trace. Maui was another long rumoured show that finally saw release last month and with it out of the way RAH now stands along as the longest awaited Hendrix release by a long shot. Years of bitter disputes have kept this one from becoming a reality, but in 2019 EH surprised everyone by hosting a one off screening at Royal Albert Hall with all involved parties presumably getting along, making many speculate that 2020 would be the year we would finally see this one released. Of course once again it has vanished without a trace. Those who saw the screening were unified in stating the film was labeled as a work in progress and that it clearly wasn't a final cut. It seems obvious then that the screening was done to secure the film's copyright and allow EH time to polish and release it on their own schedule. It seems Goldstein is still adamant about a theatrical run which means this film will likely be pushed back even further as the effects of COVID 19 have made it impossible for such a screening to take place and likely will make such a thing unlikely throughout much of 2021. If a theatrical run is a non negotiable stipulation, RAH and perhaps the best footage of Hendrix will almost certainly not see release until 2022 at the earliest. It is possible the audio and video may see release separately, but with Maui having it's video component solely available in the box with the audio it could be that EH no longer see's stand alone video releases as financially viable, which in this case means the audio will likely be held hostage to the fate of the film. In addition there is material from the 18th that could be used to make an amazing box set of two complete shows with audio and video.

    3) Berkeley 1970
    Maui did such a great job of combining existing video elements with nearly complete audio for both shows that it naturally leaves one salivating for the same approach to be taken with the Berkeley material. The complete second set was released back in 2003, parts of the first set have been spread out on various releases over the years, but some parts remain unreleased and of course there is the soundcheck material as well. Then there is the video which has been released on DVD, then again on Bluray with additional footage. EH has still not claimed to have given us "all existing footage" the way they did with Maui, causing some to speculate more Berkeley footage exists. Because of the film coming out shortly after Hendrix death and the quality of the performance, Berkeley is probably Hendrix's most heralded material from 1970. It's a shame 50 years on a definitive set has not come to light. There is enough material here that hasn't be released officially to make this set worthwhile, and if any unseen video exists it's a major bonus, but even just to have both sets and video footage in one place would be refreshing instead of having to cherry pick from numberous releases including bootlegs to recompile Jimi's notorious sets at Berkeley

    4) Black Gold
    The infamous bandana tapes given to Mitch Mitchell as some of Hendrix's last known original compositions to be written, existing solely in demo form these tapes have been deemed by many fans as a holy grail of Hendrix material for decades now. Back in 2010 Janie Hendrix made the bold claim we would see Black Gold released by the end of the decade. It even started out promising with the release of a solitary track "Suddenly November Morning" on the 2010 compilation West Coast Seattle Boy, giving everyone their first taste of this material and it's quality. But then not a single peep since. No additional songs, no real talk about forth coming release, Black Gold it seems slipped back into a black hole. Obviously this tape has commercial appeal among diehard fans, but many disagree on how it should best be released. A stand alone album? A Dagger album? Part of a larger compilation? Regardless of what form it takes, all fans agree this is material that needs to be out there. However because of it's uniqueness and because it's really the only thing of it's kind, it's also likely EH recognizes the value in it and that it's continued presence in the vault may be helpful in future contract negotiations. So for that reason it may stay hidden away for some time yet.

    5) The 1969 USA Experience Shows
    Both the LA and San Diego shows were professionally recorded to be included in a potential live album that nearly came into existence back in 1969. It didn't and the material has been parceled out in many forms over the years. Many of these releases however were incomplete, were lacking in fidelity or were scarce, expensive or hard to find. EH has been at the helm now for 25 years and it's somewhat shocking that some of the best recorded and best played material of Hendrix's career have been largely ignored. When In The West was reissued 2011 the track listing was change, several tracks from San Diego were added and Voodoo Child from RAH was replaced with the San Diego version. This meant a large part of San Diego could be had on In The West, but it was still incomplete, fragmented and out of order. LA on the other hand has just seen bits and pieces released on compilations and nothing even close to definitive has been released by EH. I was thinking about the best way to handle this material. San Diego would likely be seen as an exploitation if released as a stand alone, but what about if EH released a box focusing on the Spring 1969 US tour and the breakup of the Experience? This set could include both the San Diego and LA shows as well as material from Newport (which if we're honest is probably too spotty to be a stand alone release, but does have some great moments between the normal set and the secondary jam set). This could also allow for a video component to be added where footage from both San Jose and Newport could be sensibly utilized and perhaps even a documentary on the final days of the Experience from the last recording sessions and live shows through the final date in Denver. That approach seems like the best of both world's which would allow video footage not suitable for a stand alone release, LA and San Diego to get complete releases without feeling like too much of a double dip and a way to utilize highlights from Newport. If not this approach, perhaps RSD releases of LA and San Diego would be the best way to get that material out there in complete form.

    6) Large Compilation Box
    EH has seen pretty good reception of their large compilation boxes The Purple Box and West Coast Seattle Boy. Previously these had been utilized at the start of each decade to release a wide swath of material from alternate takes and unreleased songs to samples of live material that hadn't yet received stand alone releases. Both of these boxes were career spanning retrospectives that offer particularly interesting looks into all areas of Hendrix's career. As we are now into a new decade another one of these sets would probably be a welcomed release. There is still unreleased Hendrix originals, still unreleased early Hendrix material, still unreleased alternate takes and jams and unreleased live material that would be more than enough to compile another very strong box set comparable to the two that have come before. This could also be perhaps an appropriate landing space for the Black Gold material if a stand alone release isn't considered viable.

    7) Stockholm 1967
    Few live tapes survive from the Experience in 1967 even less are in suitable sound quality for official release. Naturally Experience Hendrix has made a point of releasing most of this material, from the BBC stuff to Monterey to Paris. Stockholm stands as the one exception. It was released on the now out of print Stages compilation 30 years ago. EH has released complete shows of two of the four stages concerts, and nearly all of the San Diego concert, but has released just a few tracks on a compilation from Stockholm. Because it has decent enough sound quality and is perhaps the last known 1967 tape of releasable quality it is surprising this one still rests in the vault.

    8) Randall's Island 1970
    A bit of a rowdy audience, a bit of a rough show but a pretty decent recording. Randall's Island is one of the last unreleased 1970's shows for which a better recording exists than a fan made audience recording. However in 2013 EH released some of the footage they have of the show on the Hear My Train A Comin' bluray, so it seems that may be their final statement on this material.

    9) Dagger Releases
    During it's first decade with MCA at the helm Dagger Records was a well serviced outlet for Hendrix material, averaging basically one release per year it was a steady stream of new Hendrix from live and rehersal material to studio outtakes and jams, many amazing things have been released under the Dagger label. When Sony took over in 2010 however Dagger fell by the wayside. For the first six years of the Sony contract, just one release "Live at Cologne" was released on Dagger records, it seemed all but dead. But in the last few years Sony and EH have shown a bit more love to the label releasing three titles in the last four years under the Dagger banner. They've even done a promotional youtube video displaying the back catalog, so it could be a sign Dagger will continue to factor into their long term plans. If so the label opens the possibility for many left field releases. While two of the last three releases have focused on pre Experience Hendrix there are still many studio outtakes, jams, home recordings and live tapes that could be utilized by Dagger in the future.

    10) Euro 1969 Box
    Experience Hendrix seldom mentions it, but several shows on the 1969 European tour were recorded/filmed. While the one set in Stockholm is a common one on youtube it is one of the weaker shows of the tour. The tour largely got better as it progressed and the final three dates were filmed and recorded professionally by the crew as a warm up for the RAH shows a month later. Despite this, none of this has leaked out. We don't have any of this footage, or audio from these concerts. Yet as recently as 2009 in his book Ultimate Hendrix, McDermott confirms they exist. Even if the films aren't complete shows, there still should be enough here from multiple camera men and at least 5 different sets of music to compile a pretty amazing release. Back in 2015 Eddie Kramer alluded to the fact that the Hendrix vault possessed quite a bit of unreleased film and that he thought it would be utilized in the near future. Around that time Atlanta came out, but then no other footage was released until the Maui set this year. Clearly Kramer was suggesting there was more than just the Maui material in the vaults and it stands to reason some of the most releaseable video material in the vault collection would probably be these Euro 1969 shows. It is really the most thoroughly documented yet unreleased portion of his career at this point. The question has to be what are they waiting for? Perhaps this material is tied up in similar issues as the RAH footage, and maybe there is a stipulation the RAH footage has to be issued first, whatever the case, it seems absolutely bizarre so much could exist from this time period and almost nothing has slipped out in any way.

    The above ten suggestions are all items that do exist and seem to be in EH's possession making them the most realistic for release. Some have been released partially, some have been teased, some have merely been mentioned, but they all do exist and seem legitimate candidates for future release, and also goes to show just how much more Hendrix material still stands to be released, and when you look at it a good deal of it is still absolute prime material, if you factor in one release per year and some Dagger releases I think EH will have no problem lasting another 10-20 years and still be releasing some pretty damn interesting material.

    Of course there are also rumours, things like Dallas '70 that existed at one point may someday resurface and there really isn't much information out there on what may exist in soundboard form from over the years, or what may be contained in Bill Graham's archives, it does seem a bit odd how many times Hendrix played Graham venues and relatively little has surfaced beyond professional recordings when Graham was known to tape many artists over multiple night stands. Then you have the material that EH is somewhat coy about. Where they seem to be withholding material, we've seen two Dagger releases focused on the Ottawa 1968 material and it still seems we haven't heard all that exists of it, and there are several other examples of this where we may not have been given the complete versions of tapes that add more to the speculation pool.

    Either way it will be fun to speculate and hear everyone's thought, opinion, gripes and wishes for 2021. For my prediction, I think we will get some sort of expanded box set themed around Jimi's unreleased fourth album.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
  2. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Cucaracha Expert

    Is there an abridged/Cliff Note's version? ;)
     
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  3. longdist01

    longdist01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Hendrix at RAH....it will be finished by 2023 and shown in cinemas by then....who knows, but hope so!
     
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  4. Saigor

    Saigor Active Member

    Location:
    Argentina
    Hi Adam, i´ve been reading many threads in this forum but never decided to create an account. Well, i joined today just by seeing this thread and wanted to give my contribution. I adore Jimi, i dont know if i´m a diehard fan but i have listened to many of his music. I think that, regarding what you say, this could be the best options:

    1 - 50th annyversary of Jimi´s final album:

    Maybe releasing a 50th anniversary super deluxe edition of the cry of love on may of this year with a videoclip on youtube promoting it on march on its 50th anniversary would be a good idea, giving enough space between it and the Maui release, i would love to see the many construction phases of ezy ryder, straght ahead, it could be the perfect opportunity to put a second teaser of the Astro Man version in Black Gold, but i doubt that´s gonna happen, maybe EH will put that in the third anthology maybe? Also Kramer and Mitch said, if im not wrong, that TCOL album and specifically the famous track Angel where very jigsaw to put together, yet when i first listened to Angel on youtube on 2007 it was mind-blowing, so i think the final result is awesome, i dont understand why its disliked the idea of Frankestein tracks, as long as the end result is good and listeneable, i vote to have both versions, since i adored the Here He comes (the Lover Man) of South Saturn Delta wich if im not wrong its two tracks pieced together and the track Sen My Love to Linda of Both Sides of The Sky was awesome wich if i dont remember bad on PurpleJim page says it consists of three different tracks. Well, its just a personal opinion and personal taste but i would love to see a mega box of both the sessions of each of the cry of love album tracks from demos to early takes, raw mixes, alternative takes, rehearsalas both when Jimi was still alive to the sessions of Eddie Kramer, Mitch Mitchell and Billy Cox.

    My wish:
    May 2021 release date - The Cry of Love 50th anniversary Super Deluxe Edition

    CD 1 - The Cry of Love remixed on Ultimate Mix
    CD 2 - Demos and early takes
    CD 3 - Sessions: more early and alternative takes
    CD 4 - More Sessions: more takes and rehearsals
    CD 5 - The last takes Jimi did on each track plus Eddie, Mitch and Billy sessions.
    CD 6 - A show from the Cry of Love tour
    CD 7 - A second show from the Cry of Love Tour
    CD 8 - Documentary about the album and the Cry of Love tour with many special features of footage from that tour and sourround sounds of the album.
    Hardcover book with many details, photos and many pages.
    Five posters included the original artwork from the 1971 album.

    That i think would be a definitive reissue of the album but, thinking reallistically, would never happen, i dont think EH will take the commercial risk of this underselling, i heard that the imagine box set underselled because the Lennon Estate didnt released it on its 50th anniversary. But i dont know, i think EH are testing how much market really is for Heavy boxes releases of Jimi, since they are releasing much more as the time passes, with a BOG shows 5 CD, Record store day releases, BOG deluxe edition, Maui 2 CD+ Blu -Ray, Dagger pre-experience and AYE on SACD, all of this releases in nearly a complete year of time. So maybe this could be possible or:

    Reallistically: The Cry of Love 50th anniversary deluxe edition

    CD 1 : The Cry of Love on Ultimate Mix
    CD 2: Demos - sessions and outtakes
    CD 3: Show from 1970
    Bluray with surround sounds and a poster. I Would love a track by track documentary.

    Maybe this will be a much safer commercial release for a massive market but not for the diehard fanbase. If they choose that maybe it could be enough market for a second release this year:

    Rainbow bridge 50th anniversary deluxe edition: release date: late November 2021 or very early december 2021- promoted on October 2021 and November 2021 with many videos:

    My wish: a heavy box like The Cry of Love but two of that in one year i think that commercially is not probably going to happen so:

    CD 1: Rainbow Bridge on ultimate Mix
    CD 2: Demos - sessions and outtakes
    CD 3: Show from 1970
    Bluray with surround sounds, a poster and maybe a track by track documentary and a poster.

    I would love many demos and outtakes showing the construction process of tracks like Hear my Train Acomin´, Hey Baby, Pali Gap, all the takes of the Studio version of the Star Spangled Banner and more takes on earth blues.

    Then we enter on 2022:

    It will be the 50th anniversary so it would be awesome a 4 cd box of highlights of jimi's live shows from 1966 to 1970, just like and expanded version of In the West. Maybe with many posters of the photos that were the artwork of the original 1972 album and maybe a documentary off Jimi's tours like the Beatles Eight Days a Week maybe?

    Then in October would be the 50th Anniversary of War Heroes, my wish is for another heavy box but the most probable is another small deluxe edition like the previous two - at least i hope EH will release as many as possible outtakes of Tax Free,Beginnings, Bleeding Heart and Stepping Stone, which i think are awesome tracks.

    That would be all for the this year and the next, also there are not many years left for the 1973 film 50th anniversary so:

    March to april 2023 - large promotion of Berkeley box set released on the 20th anniversary of EH original release of the second show in 2003.
    June to July 2023 - large promotion of the 50th anniversary of the 1932 film, with a release of cinemas, blu-ray, poster, soundtrack and Jimi on acoustic guitar figure on mainstream release.

    For Berkeley i vote for a 3CD +Blu-Ray Release, just like Maui, but with a better secuenced special features of all footage, they could use slow-motion, alternative footage of the people waiting outside the theather and the incidents of that day and a book about the gig, like Ben Valkhoff´s book of the Royal Albert Hall´s shows. The 3cds would be:

    CD 1: First show (is there soundchecks before this or rehearsals?)
    CD 2: Soundchecks and Second Show
    CD 3: Second Show Conclusion

    Also they could release the next year (2022) a 40th annyversary reissue of The Jimi Hendrix Concerts of 1982, since its out of print.

    Anyway, theres a lot more i would want to write but i have wrote a lot already, thank you for your time, whoever reads this, and let me know your opinions, i love this kind of threads about Jimi, the best greetings.
     
  5. Saigor

    Saigor Active Member

    Location:
    Argentina
    I found many errors, like i ommited saying that 2023 will mark the 50th anniversary of the 1973 film, not 1932, but i dont know yet how to edit messages. And for 2022 i was referring to the 50th anniversary of In The West.
     
    ARK likes this.
  6. DarylB

    DarylB Forum Resident

    If the estate would do a 50 anniversary for the 1973 movie, what do think or how would you like for it to be done?
     
  7. smoke

    smoke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I thought I saw something in the recent hoopla (recent? hoopla?) saying bits of those pre-RAH shows (or even backstage snippets) were included in the RAH cut that was shown in London. It seems pretty likely that it's tied up in that mess. Let's hope it's all been stored properly.

    I was not aware of the extend or unreleased nature of what they have. So...my wish for 2021:

    RAH touring small concert theaters (a bit like the original RAH showing) during a covid-free summer.

    Box set release covering the tour for Christmas.



    The First Rays idea could be great if handled just right (I love the idea above of being able to hear some of those songs take shape) but the material has been issued and reissued time and again going back to the first posthumous records (which have been re-released themselves as though part of the canon).
     
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  8. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Can't see that happening because I don't think they'd be so presumptuous to enshrine their non-Jimi-approved approximation of his final album in such a way. AYE and Axis didn't get anniversary sets - but COL will? Can't see it.

    Secondly, even if they do do it, if the EL anniversary box is anything to go by, it'll be at best a huge disappointment, since they've proven once and for all with that set that they aren't interested in doing a deep dive/fully depleting their stash of worthy unreleased tapes from any particular era.


    Not in Goldstein's lifetime.


    Weren't there tuning problems with the 1st set? That could be preventing them from (ever?) releasing the entire performance.


    This will NOT be released in full/all at once. I can't see them putting any more than a track or two from it on any one release. It's too legendary (and will largely be held back for future label negotiations) not to mention its not a proper studio recording, being more akin to his "Hotel Tapes", and Sony may not consider it to be a viable mainstream release on its own for that reason, but OTOH probably would consider it valid to include a track or two from it on future, otherwise "studio album" releases.


    Certainly possible (maybe just an individual concert or two rather than big boxes though), but I have a feeling they're more likely going to go with a studio release next, since its been awhile since we've had one.


    Certainly possible - and there's certainly precedent for it - one such box per decade/per label contract so far - so they're due. Plus I must admit I'm biased since its definitely what I'd want to see next. These type of boxes are a great home for material that doesn't really fit anywhere else, or can't justify a standalone release. Being career retrospectives they also cover eras that aren't otherwise covered, such as the AYE sessions. The only places we've ever really gotten that material was on the two previous boxes (TPB and WCSB). Between those two boxes, we've gotten about 2/3 of the AYE album and (it's era's singles) in alternate form. It would be nice to get the other 1/3 on another box (to be able to compile a complete alternate studio AYE album). Also I really want to see more (eventually all) of Jimi's final (Aug 1970) mixing sessions released. I want to hear his final word on those tracks, rather than just the posthumous versions (some with posthumous overdubs) mixed by Kramer/Mitchell/Jansen. Jimi's own mixes are important tracks that aren't likely to find a home on any single disc "albums". Plus it would be a good home for some of the best "Jimi as sideman" songs from his post-fame days 1967-70. They'd certainly make far more sense on a retrospective box than on any standalone albums. Plus it would probably include another one or two 'Black Gold' tracks (like WCSB included one).


    Could be considered (7 - too short) and (8 - too spotty) to be worthy of release as standalones, though I can see both possibly contributing tracks to the next career retrospective boxset (assuming there is one).


    IMO Dagger is a completely different conversation than Sony as far as releases go. What I will say is, I think they'll likely stick to bootleg SQ releases going forward, and we won't see anymore 'Hear My Music'- type studio releases on Dagger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2021
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  9. sons of nothing

    sons of nothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois
    I predict the next release will be a live show we didn't know is in the vaults, something that is not circulating in bootleg land.
     
  10. 99thfloor

    99thfloor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    You have a 30 minute window where you can edit, after that the post is what it is, which is a bit of a drag for us non-English speakers or those who are just plain clumsy, I'm always annoyed seeing my old posts with spelling mistakes etc. Welcome to the forum.

    As for you suggestions, I think it is unlikely that they would elevate the status of any of the posthumous releases by doing Anniversaries of them, releasing some of the nuts and bolts in some other package (next box set) is more likely.
     
  11. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Hope it's a WCSB type box. I think they need to lay off the documentaries because the new interviews usually suck.

    EH have kept all the videos in print, so they must be viable. Maui may have been forced bundled due to the fractured natured of the live footage and the documentary being hippy hyperbole nonsense. ELL50 and Maui being blu ray only is noteworthy.

    The black gold date in uncertain and could be as early as spring 1970. Songs like Belly Button were written after. BG will be only used 1 song at a time.

    I've wondered if the Swedish broadcasts haven't been touched because of Jimi's 2nd offspring legal claim. I think he was given(wage garnished) Jimi's Swedish royalties growing up by authorities in lieu of child payments.

    Wasn't there unseen Randalls footage of RFOM in the new Maui documentary?

    There's 2 glimpses of non-RAH Euro 69 footage in the old VHS dub. Jimi walking in an airport and a distant crowd shot of an unknown venue.
     
  12. John Harchar

    John Harchar Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hmmm...I think for now I’ll go with a catch all box coming out sometime in the fall as usual. Maui was the last sure thing they had outside of RAH. My preference is a 1970 sessions but that’s not going to come out all at once based on their track record.
     
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  13. adam_777

    adam_777 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Duncan BC, Canada
     
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  14. John Harchar

    John Harchar Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I'd love the 1969 LA/San Diego two-fer, but the only way that could happen is if the RAH set is released first. This will (theoretically) open up Little Wing and Voodoo Child for use on a straight reissue of In the West. The expanded 2011 version goes out of print, opening up the San Diego tracks for use in a more comprehensive set. In reality, I probably gave this situation more thought than they ever will.

    Part of the problem now is a lot of what they have available lends itself to doing something they really haven't done, re: comprehensive sets. Songs For Groovy Children was the closest they've come to a "complete" set and that has its deficiencies (the good outweighs the bad though). Most of the options have reasons or precedent why they won't do such and such. The box that kind of cleans up the rest of what hasn't been reissued and adds in some solid live material actually looks like the most realistic option. But we've been surprised before...
     
  15. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    No they didn't. That was their/MCA's "marketing campaign" for the disc, but that was obviously not an honest approximation of what Hendrix probably would have released had he lived. It was a 17 song compilation album which happens to be the maximum number of song copyrights record labels are usually willing to pay for on CD releases. Really! I bet around 90% of all the single disc best of/greatest hits CDs that were first compiled/released in the CD era that you have in your collection have no more than 17 tracks on them- even when there's plenty of space left on the CD for more (just as there was room on the FROTNRS CD to include more songs - and which would have made it more in-line with the length/number of songs of a real double album).

    What they gave MCA wasn't "Hendrix's unfinished 4th album" - it was an expanded COL with 7 bonus songs. They needed the disc to have more than ten songs to be able to hype/market it as "Jimi's vision for his final album" since it was so well known that Jimi was intending to release it as a double album - but they also needed to cap the number of tracks at 17 (less than Jimi would have realistically released on a double album at the time - certainly given the relative shortness of the individual songs he was recording in 1970).

    The CD adhered more to MCA's reluctance to pay for more than 17 song copyrights than it did "Jimi's true vision" for the album.

    Plus the FROTNRS CD repeated the same problems COL had (when viewed as his "4th proper album") like including tracks that would have made no sense on a real 4th Hendrix album, such as the EL sessions outtake 'My Friend' and the blatantly obviously unfinished demo 'Belly Button Window'.

    They compounded this problem by including more clearly unfinished sounding tracks on 'First Rays' like 'Hey Baby' and songs that were not likely in serious consideration by Hendrix for inclusion on his fourth album like 'Beginnings'.

    Of course people could argue that probably none of the songs were truly finished to Jimi's satisfaction before he died - and those people would probably be right about that - but at least many of them "sounded" finished. "Freedom" certainly does (or at least it did before Kramer pointed out exactly what Jimi had meant to record as a final overdub on the track).

    Lots of tracks would have made more sense (and sounded more finished) than some of the ones they chose to include on 'First Rays' back in 1997, like:

    Power Of Soul
    Message To Love
    Those two are repeats from the live BOG album - but they were among the most finished sounding studio tracks available to EH at the time.

    Pali Gap - if they were going to include an instrumental song on the album (which Jimi himself never did on any of the 3 albums he released in his lifetime) this would have made far more sense than the fairly monotonous/repetitive Beginnings

    Drifter's Escape
    Bleeding Heart
    They're a little bit rough but they do sound very close to being finished.

    ...but hey gotta save some gems for the next "lost Hendrix album" - in the case of all of the above tracks that "lost Hendrix album' was 'South Saturn Delta'.

    All that aside I'll repeat what I've already said before - they've proven once and for all that they have no interest in doing a deep dive into any one era - witness the fairly pointless EL anniversary box. They aren't going to "dump" all of their best remaining 1970 tracks onto one box set release. So I doubt they'd do a COL/FROTNRS/whatever you want to call it anniversary box - and if they do its going to be AT LEAST as underwhelming (and suck at least as much) as the EL anniversary box they did put out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  16. John Harchar

    John Harchar Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    The other main problem with a narrow CoL/1970 semi-straight or moderately expanded reissue is we still have Cry of Love and Rainbow Bridge out there in very affordable and great sounding form. This approach would've worked for AYE and Axis since there was a specific release and sessions concentrated in a relatively small period of time. But we got bupkus until the SACDs came out (merits and demerits of both set aside). Since these were both compilation albums, anything added to it would be somewhat random, even though we know what could or should have been added from the start.

    They COULD do a nice vinyl reissue of each ala the Band of Gypsys 50th, something so nice it'd make non vinyl people like myself seriously think of picking it up. Then n 2022, a scaled down simple War Heroes digital/vinyl reissue.
     
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  17. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll

    Location:
    DK
    All I would wish for is a release with all master takes in chronological order. Call it “(Sessions for) First Rays...” or something similar. Include every possible Hendrix mix. There was never an album to begin with. Just give us the master takes. I know: Boring and unimaginative. But very effective and logical.
     
  18. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    The lack of an in-depth, historically accurate collection of 1970 era recordings is a glaring omission in the catalogue. As you pointed out, the 1997 release was essentially an expanded Cry of Love, and clearly was not a legitimate and accurate attempt at producing a compilation of recordings that represented what Hendrix was working on at the time of his death, and it certainly doesn't represent his vision for the 4th studio album. All one has to do is look at what Hendrix was working on during the summer sessions at Electric Lady to get a sense of where Hendrix's 4th studio album project was headed.

    Hendrix Mixes:
    Ezy Ryder [alternate mix, 6/15/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Purple Box)
    In From The Storm [alternate mix, 8/20/70, Electric Lady Studios] (WCSB)
    Room Full of Mirrors [8/20/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Rainbow Bridge)
    Dolly Dagger [8/20/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Rainbow Bridge)
    Straight Ahead [8/20/70, Electric Lady Studios – Eddie Kramer only] (Cry of Love)
    Come Down Hard On Me [8/22/70, Electric Lady] (Purple Box)
    Astro Man [8/22/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Cry of Love)
    Drifter’s Escape [8/22/70, Electric Lady Studios] (South Saturn Delta)
    Earth Blues [alternate mix 8/22/70] (Purple Box)
    Power of Soul [8/22/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Both Sides)
    Message To Love [alternate mix, 8/22/70] (WCSB)
    Night Bird Flying [alternate mix, 8/22/70] (Purple Box)
    Ezy Ryder [8/22/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Cry of Love)
    Belly Button Window [8/24/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Cry of Love)
    Freedom [8/24/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Cry of Love)
    Night Bird Flying [8/24/70, Electric Lady Studios] (Cry of Love)

    Presumably Jimi had Hey Baby earmarked for the 4th album, but it was still very underdeveloped in the studio, with really only an approved backing track under development (ultimately mixed and included on Rainbow Bridge, and later First Rays). Izabella and Stepping Stone had been released as a single, so any 1970 collection would be incomplete without them, but it is unclear if either track would have been recycled for the 4th album (Hendrix did continue to ineffectively tinker with the songs). Then there are other contenders that were in advanced stages of development like Drifting and Angel, and other contenders in various stages of development such as Midnight Lightning, Bleeding Heart, Lover Man, and Valleys of Neptune. Then there are songs that were started, but may not have been developed or fully-realized for the purposes of the 4th album like All Gods Children, Bolero, Beginnings, Cherokee Mist, and recording initially listed as Slow Part (later renamed Pali Gap).

    The only way to properly and effectively chronicle this period of recording would have been to produce a double disc set, comprised of the recordings Hendrix was working on during his final months, some nearly complete, some under different phases of development -- because the reality is there is no way to create a probable tracklisting (and a number of recordings from this period would not have made the final cut). Hendrix allegedly sketched out a 3-sided sequencing, but who knows if that is accurate or if that is ultimately what he would have committed to. An expanded posthumous collection could have accurately described where songs were in the mixing and recording process, and could have included alternate takes and mixes. That would have provided the record-buying public with a historically accurate and factual presentation of Hendrix's final period of work.
     
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  19. crozcat

    crozcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    ^
    Great!

    Dolly Dagger´s final mix was on August 24, though.

    And there´s always been some confusion (in my mind) as to how "final" the released Straight Ahead mix was.
    Apparently it was among the four finished mixes played at the opening party of Electric Lady Studios on August 26.
    The other tracks were Dolly Dagger, Ezy Rider and Night Bird Flying, and these at least sound finished, while Straight Ahead doesn´t.
    Weak rhythm guitar, probably a guide vocal(?) and an "empty" mix by the standard of other August mixes.
    First Rays... liner notes states it was mixed by Eddie alone on August 20 - the Ultimate Hendrix book gives the impression that Jimi also participated.
    Then there was a new mix done on August 22 (rejected according to First Rays...), and a new "final" mix was done on August 25 (according to Ultimate Hendrix).
    So, is there a better/more complete "final" mix (from August 25) in the archives?
    And, if so, why was the August 20 mix released and WHY hasen´t the later mix been released by now??
     
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  20. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Good questions. It is frustrating that the vintage mixes from August 1970 have not been released in their entirety. These are the recordings in their historically accurate state, overseen by Hendrix. Some have trickled out over the years on various compilations, but it is a bit baffling that something more comprehensive has not been produced. Experience Hendrix has done a real disservice with Hendrix's final period in the studio.

    The final mix of Straight Ahead has been the subject of much debate amongst Hendrix fans over the years. Compared to some of the other songs that were in final stages of completion from the period, the song arguably doesn't sound as polished or fully realized, but perhaps that is as far as Hendrix could take it.
     
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  21. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bretagne
    Seeing as they have put out First Rays, then Cry Of Love and Rainbow Bridge, I don't think the market needs yet another configuration of those albums.
    On bootlegs, we have many working takes/mixes of those songs and honestly, there's not much that is all that different to the master takes - certainly not as varied and exciting as the various stages of the making of the Experience holy trinity. It's those first three albums that really deserve a thorough treatment.
     
    DJ LX likes this.
  22. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Like Black Gold I think the AYE/AXIS outtakes will be a trail of crumbs over multiple releases. I also think RAHx 2/Euro 69 will be strung out over a bunch of theatrical/streaming/cd/vinyl/box set exclusives before fans can watch everything on a home video release.

    I wonder if they flew out a netflix exec for the official film showing and if they gave an offer on the on-stage or offstage material.
     
  23. Saigor

    Saigor Active Member

    Location:
    Argentina
    I don´t know yet how to do multiple quotes, since i cant see them on the screen and see which messages im answering and wich not, so i´ll go one at a time

    I think, regarding a cinema release of the 1973 movie, that maybe im wrong. Sure, i think that EH should release a heavy collectors edition of the 1973 movie, but they must not do for the moment no mainstream cinema releases. I think that, outside of the US and some countries of Europe (especially UK), there are not that many people that know or remeber Jimi in a way to buy all of the releases that EH are putting out and go to the cinemas to watch concert movies and even less documentaries, i think that the most comercially wise (and im not pretending to be some Doctor in economic sciences, its just my personal opinion) should be:

    Putting videoclips of practically all of the songs that are featured in the compilations EH the best of JH, the 90´s the Ultimate Experience and the 70´s The Essential Jimi Hendrix, putting a video clip using archival footage just like the Lennon Estate did on their Lennon Legend DVD and the videoclips of The Beatles that if im not wrong are in the 1+ Blu-Ray.

    They need to create a new fanbase in the new generations so, what i would see the most logical is a Netflix series about Jimi like the Bohemian Rapsody movie and the Elton John movie. I would do:

    Season 1: Jimi´s ancestry, episodes focused on his parents, Jimi´s early years to his first instruments.

    Season 2: Jimi´s first bands, his time in the army and his early recording career, with the season finale just before the Curtis Knight era

    Season 3: Curtis Knight era, Jimi James and the Blue Flames and conclude the season with the guitar duel between Jimi and Eric Clapton.

    Season 4: Jimi in London, from September 1966 to Monterey.

    Season 5: US release of AYE, tour with the Monkeys, recording of Axis, tours on Scandinavian countries and season finale on the event Christmas on Earth.

    Season 6: all the year 1968, the recording of EL, the peak of the Experience and the first tensions between Jimi and Noel.

    Season 7: Electric Ladyland tour, RAH, the breakup of the Experience, the formation of Gypsy Sun and Rainbows and the season finale with the Woodstock show.

    Season 8: all the Band of Gypsys era and the season finale with the beginning of the 4th album sessions or the beginning of the COL tour.

    Season 9 : the Cry of Love Tour and Jimi´s death.

    Season 10: Jimi´s legacy, Michael Jeffery, Aland Douglas and Janie Hendrix management of Jimi´s posthumous releases.


    That i think its the most they can do on a Netflix series of Jimi that, if done properly (maybe it could be done in less seasons) would let the man be known on a new generation, creat a new interest on releases, and of course more sales.

    Then after thist series, (or between its seasons) they could do cinema releases of Jimi´s most famous concerts and then the documentaries on cinemas, Netflix and of course the concerts on Netflix, i would put them in this order:

    Monterey - Woodstock - RAH (if the legal problems are solved) - Berkeley better sequenced - Maui better sequenced (like the fan-edit) - Isle Of Wight - 1969 Europe shows colored - Atlanta - the 1973 documentary and Hear My Train Acomin´. That would make quite a lot of releases on mainstream cinemas supported with a renovated interest in mainstream consumers thanks to the Netflix series

    Regarding the 1973 Documentary, i think that the best way EH could milk it its:

    Standard edition: 1 Blu-Ray + Booklet
    Special Edition: 1 Blu-Ray + Booklet + Soundtrack ( on Vinyl or CD or both)
    Deluxe edition: 1 Blu-Ray + hardcover book + Soundtrack on both formats and 3 posters.
    Super Deluxe Edition: 1 Blu-Ray of the Documentary with lots of special features of the making-of, uncut interviews, long interviews with people that worked in the proyect, 2nd Blu-Ray of the 1968 Experience documentary, Hardcover book with lots of pages, reproduction of the tickets of the 1973 screening of the movie, metallic box for the Blu- Ray, Soundtrack in both formats remastered and on picture vinyl, 5 posters, metallic keychain and a figure of Jimi on acoustic guitar with the same level of detail like this one: Redirect Notice

    But also a mainstream release of this one: Redirect Notice

    I think that would be an overpriced but heavy Deluxe release of the 1973 Documentary once they create a market and demand of it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2021
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  24. Saigor

    Saigor Active Member

    Location:
    Argentina
    Thank you very much for the advices, i do what i can with my english and i constantly check on online translators to not mess up the meaning of the words or the spelling :)
     
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  25. Saigor

    Saigor Active Member

    Location:
    Argentina
    Regarding the deluxe reissue of the Michael Jeffrey´s era albums, i think that maybe its messed up subject for the ones who wish to have a chronological comprehensive set of the studio recordings of 1970 on Jimi´s wish. But i consider that, since the COL, RB and ITW reissues had, if im not wrong, a good reception among the fanbase, it could have some market for deluxe reissues, instead of just one deluxe reissue of First Rays that, considering EH modus operandi, would not be a heavy box like for example The White Album box set. So, maybe not a chronological comprehensive but i consider that a deluxe reissue of the four Michael Jeffery era releases would be sucessfull in sales as long as they are not 8CDS + 2 Blu-Rays monsters, but a Deluxe Set like EL, bad for the fanbase and the ones that wish for loads of content, but sucessful on mainstream not hardcore fan market.
    For example the Doors core albums are getting each one a deluxe reissue for their 50th Anniversary, but maybe Elektra Records thinks that there isnt market for heavy boxes, so they are releasing a 2 CD+Vinyl or 3 CD+Vinyl format for each album. There is not much time left for the 5oth anniversary of L.A. Woman but its highly probably it would have the same format, they planned to do a heavy box of 5 or 6 CDs at the beginning of the 2010´s but it was cancelled. I will say again, i think that EH are releasing much more as the time passes just to test how much market there is, there is a sentence that is often used among spasnish speakers that says "do not throw yourself on an empty pool" - "no te tires en una pileta vacía", i would use that sentence with EH testing of the market and the real demand that there is for heavy boxes outside the hardcore fanbase.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021

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