Don't want to start a controversy, but I gave my 540ML a rest and went with my 2M Red. I just purchased 2 old Dean Martin albums, "You Can't Love them All" and "Hit Sounds", 1 Frank Sinatra album, "She Shot me Down", and 1 Johnny Cash CD, "Live at Folsom Prison" plus a favorite of mine' Tom Petty's "Greatest Hits", side C. I can say a great time was had by all. Lol. Really, the Red did a great job especially with the help of the ARTS DJ, LE phono preamp. Highs were high, but not abrasive. Lows did not rumble. I was surprised on how well Dean's albums performed, no doubt helped by the AT LP7 TT with the preamp. After a good cleaning, especially for one of Dean's albums which looked like it never saw a brush etc...the Martin and Sinatra albums had a sound that indicated they had aged well. Martin's and Sinatra's were all appx 30 years old. Really all had a fine sound including Cash's CD. It was very quiet as one would expect. Petty's stuff was great. In all I'll brag on the 2M Red which along with the preamp's help did a fine job. I set the capacitance to 200 pf. Anyway it was a good sound and lot of fun. My wife was again stunned by the sound of Dean's vinyl.
In my experience, the 2M Red can sound very impressive, although perhaps not what you want if you prefer a subtle, laid-back sound. When I first got one to try, I had previously been using an old Glanz MFG cartridge (with NOS stylus), which I liked but my new Bob Marley "Legend" album sounded dull and lifeless. The 2M Red then really injected some zest into this album and it sounded as I thought it should - it is a fun cartridge. The turntable was a Pioneer PL12D, by the way. Most material sounds very good to me with the 2M Red but when I played "The Hurting" by Tears For Fears, it sounded thin and abrasive. While I'm generally not keen on the Shure M75ED, this album sounded much better (mellower) with that cartridge. I've probably told this story before but a friend of mine tried the 2M Red on three turntables, two with low-mass arms (Pro-ject EVO and Harmon Kardon T40) and one probably with medium-mass arm (Sonab 85S). He said it sounded amazing on the Sonab but mediocre on the others. So, despite officially being high-compliance, I'm wondering whether the 2M Red actually performs better on heavier arms, like those on the Sonab and Pioneer.
Update: So, in an effort to use all carts in similar price point. (And just for the fun of it) I switched the 2m Red for my Ortofon OM10e super. I played Linda Ronstadt's "Prisoner of Love", The Who's "Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy", Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of Moon", "Best of BTO", and Bobby Darin's "Folk Hits". The 10 was fine in all regards. In some ways better than the Red. It felt more in control of the music. For, where the Red was too flamboyant the 10 was just right. Also, it sounded like the 10 had clearer separation. The Red was a bit more lively. It seemed like when it was right, it was hard to better. However, when it was a bit off, it was noticeable as when it tended to break up at high end. This wasn't very often, and I believe the Red is a fine cart. I'd pick the Red over the 10, but not by much. Obviously the ML is superior to both. However, it's fun to compare. I have a few more I'll try. The Lp Gear 32 vessel, and the AT 530EN. It's all too learn and have fun. Later.
If this cart does sound that fantastic in your system and to your ears, that's all that matters. You are not listening with my ears, because if you did you'd have ditched the Red immediately......... I've listened to the 2M Red on several turntables and to me the sound is harsh, aggressive, very unpleasant. In comparison the OM 5E , which is about half the price, does sound way better.
In agreement, the 2M Red unfairly gets bad press around these parts and other forums too. It's a little coarse and not the greatest tracker out there, but has tremendous fun, vigor and drive on the right record. Naturally given it's price point, it's found on a lot of entry tables; I think this explains some of the criticism. For someone disposed to changing their stylus on old records or chiefly on a diet of 70's rock or similar, I think it's a great choice and deserves a chance and suspension of bias.
I am in broad agreement in comparing the 2M Red and Super OM10. For me, the 2M Red has a chunkier sound with more presence, while the Super OM10 has a touch more finesse and possibly flows better, which may make it a more endearing cartridge to many people. When you consider that the Super OM10 is cheaper than the 2M Red and under $100, it is quite a bargain. All the AT cartridges that I've tried with ML stylus have been a little lacking in dynamics. I have the AT120E, the forerunner to the VM530EN, and I find that a superb cartridge - it is livelier than my AT440MLa and has an almost additive sound. I actually found the opposite regarding the 2M Red vs OM5E. When I tried the OM5E, I found it to be generally coarse (but the Stylus 20 remedied that). I didn't notice the same thing with the 2M Red, although it can be abrasive on some recordings. For me, the 2M Red is the better cartridge and worth the extra money, although the Super OM10 is probably better value.
I'll listen to the OM10E for about a week or so, then go with my LP Gear Vessel 32. Thanks for the replies.
I've used the 2M Red with my three TTs. My ATLP120x, ATLPW40M, and MY ATLP7. It did a fine job. Not up to the 540ML, but good. At least I like tge sound. I have the OM5E. I found it decent with a slightly restricted sound stage. Yet, it's hard to compare with the ML or even the Red. It sounds different. Anything within that sound stage had a good, clear, sound. This probably resulted in a narrow field of sound. I also felt it had limited imaging. I found seating was very important wiyh thus cart. I've retired it to my used stylus box and am holding it for emergencies, or to compare it to the 10.......etc.
I tried the 5E stylus on an old LM body and TM (p-mount) body, and thought it sounded very nice on these bodies - better (more solid and smoother) than on the OM body. The 10 stylus sounds really good on the TM too but I prefer the 20 stylus on the OM. In my opinion, the OM20 is the sweet point of the OM range, although with the Super OM body I actually prefer to 10 stylus.
So you’ve started experimenting with cartridges? Nice. This is exactly why playing (with) records is so much more fun than playing digital! I have a different cartridge for every occasion - it’s almost like a watch collection lol
I'm currently running an ATLP7 turntable with a Schiit Mani2 preamp. I too, have retired the 540ML in favor of an Ortofon Blue and untimatly with a Bronze. I liked the 540 but I thought it lacked punch, the Blue was better and the Bronze is superb with clear highs, tight lows and a broad soundstage. I do not own a Red so I cannot speak to the original post but I have heard that there is a significant difference between the Red and Blue and the difference between the Blue and Bronze is off the map (I know, different cart specs, but they look the same) I can only imagine what the black must be like.
It's just a nude elliptical like the 2M Blue. So you might want to try a Blue stylus on your 2M. I gave up on all of my cheaper bonded ellipticals (like the 2M Red) after using any nude mount. They are just better. There is also the Analogis Black Diamond nude elliptical stylus for the OM series that only costs about $40. I replaced the bonded OM10 stylus with the BD and it was an improvement. Replacement Stylus, ANALOGIS, BLACK DIAMOND Ortofon Stylus 5e/10/20/30/40 | analogis BLACK DIAMOND
The 20 stylus and Blue stylus are both nude ellipticals but not quite the same, as the 20 stylus is higher compliance than the Blue (25cu vs 20cu). I think some people prefer the OM20 over the 2M Blue, but it's down to taste. I agree that the Black Diamond OM stylus is worth a try. I got one early on (actually branded as Thakker Nudeline) and it produces a very nice sound for relatively little money. It isn't as good as the stylus 20 but is more refined than the 5E and 10 styli. The downsides are that it is quieter and less dynamic than the Ortofon styli. They had some quality control issues with the Black Diamond styli but if you can get a good one, it's worth having.
I’m one of those who prefers the OM (and equivalent Concordes in particular) over the 2M series. Except for the Black, which has no OM counterpart. You could consider the OM40 its counterpart as they’re both the top of the line, but it has a completely different stylus profile (FG70 vs Shibata). I’ve never heard the OM40, but I suspect I would prefer it, since I tend to favor more advanced stylus profiles over Shibata. The OM cartridges also seem to track better.
I utilized the 2M Red for about 7 years on my TECHNICS SL-1900, upgrading from a vintage PICKERING V-15 400e. I found the ORTOFON to amaze me. It seemed to dig additional sonics from the grooves of my records, and made the excellent sound leap from my speakers as never before. I had replaced the 2M Red cart with new ones a couple times (I didn't, and still don't, play a lot of records, so the styli lasts quite a long time). I have always cared for my records very well, and they're in excellent condition. I upgraded to the 2M Blue about a year and a half ago. The sonics differed a bit (the Blue much more balanced than the Red, which seemed slightly more aggressive and upfront. Both sonic signatures are positive IMHO, and each delivers its particular gifting matched on the material that fits best on different music types..) I am now about 3 months into utilizing my AT-540ML (about 25 hours), and I like it a lot also. It's also a bargain for the performance level - $200 USD incl. head shell. I agree the 2M Red gets dissed unfairly around here. It's been mfg since 2008, and is still in the current ORTOFON line. You could do a lot worse for $99 USD. The BLUE is about $240 USD.
I don't have the 40 stylus but do have the 30. There is a Youtube video comparing the Super-OM30 with the Super-OM40 and I think the consensus is that the 40 is brighter. I find the Super-OM30 bright enough. In the 500 MkII series, I thought going from the 520 to 540 stylus (also FG70) would be a worthwhile upgrade but found the 540 brighter and analytical, and frankly a bit tiring. This is much as I found the 2M Red. I thought it was quite remarkable for the price, as long as you like a forward, dynamic sound. It's funny how people report different experiences of the 2M Red and 2M Blue. I'm currently using the 2M Blue on a new Thorens TD-403 and am very impressed with the weight and presence that it delivers on this turntable.
That’s a Microline, not an FG70. But yes, those tend to get more high frequencies out of the groove, so it might sound brighter because of that. Edit: Nevermind, I confused an Ortofon cartridge with an AT one lol
Plus the 2M's have that super high output voltage. They claim 5.5mv but have been measured even higher(over 8mv I once read). Might be one reason why people think they sound "exciting" or "harsher" depending on preference. OM's a nice 4.0mv and consistent.
Yes. the 2Ms are defiantly harsher or brighter. I have a Schiit Loki Mini+ in line which I use to slightly sometimes tame down the high end, especially female voices.
Yep. I've really enjoyed listening to the different carts. Trying to discern differences. I've been considering bringing up my ATWP 120X to hook up again. I just need room. I have a few watches, but none worth collecting. Mostly -----mart watches. And a decent watch my wife bought me.
I have the AT95EN and the 530EN. Both are superior in sound production. I've given the 2M Blue a thought, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost for me. I have the 540ml its about the same price.
Why? To quickly switch between cartridges? I can highly recommend making notes of all the cartridge settings, to allow for quicker setup. I actually have a spreadsheet at which I keep track of all the settings and an estimate of stylus playtime. Only mechanical watches for me! I really appreciate the mechanical craftsmanship and clever designs of those, as much as I appreciate the clever mechanical designs of turntables and cartridges.
