30-disc studio & live box coming from Gentle Giant

that is massive, but GREAT and excellent to see this for this band...

 

You won’t see reviews way in advance. First, manufacturing doesn’t happen ‘til pretty close to street. I was lucky to get my copy around the beginning of November, so I had a month to absorb and write what turned out to be the longest review I’ve ever written. And even if I’d had it/written it sooner, labels and publicists typically don’t want reviews published too far ahead of release date, so all about jazz's general rule is a week ahead of street.

But with a second pressing coming in April, you’ll have had plenty of time to read my review and make your decision as to whether or not you’d be interested in buying it, no?

Just telling you how things are. It’s very rare that reviewers can get even single disc titles more than a few weeks ahead of street; big box sets like Giant and Floyd? Rarely even that far out for big box sets - I was lucky with Giant and Floyd, and can sometimes get Crimson material with a good lead time...but not always. Sometimes final decisions as to what will be in a box aren’t made until surprisingly late in the game.

It is, as they say, complicated, especially with mega-box sets.

 

Well, some people who buy “limited editions” want them to BE limited. Not me, but just sayin’. Any time a limited run box is repressed it’s a big gamble wrt fans who bought the box with that premise in mind. Madfish made the decision for reasons documented, but as I’ve written before: when it comes to these big box sets, you can never please everyone, though most labels I know certainly try their best. But on the basis of this and other forums, there are always complaints...enough, in fact, that I’m glad I review these things and don’t have involvement in putting them out, as I honestly think I’d get discouraged.

I can’t think of a single box set that, once it’s released and a thread begins, doesn’t ultimately devolve into mostly negativity about how various people perceive they should have been done. And, of course, how one person thinks it should have been done often varies significantly from the next

Like I said: you can’t please everyone. But believe me, I know of few instances where they don’t try to do exactly that. Just my perspective, but there you have it.

 

C’mon, man (sorry to sound like Biden): first you want it announced a few months in advance. Now, when presented wth that, you also want a review before you buy?

Sorry, man, but I’ve explained a bit about how things work when it comes to reviews and timing, so what you’re now asking for just ain’t doable.

 

That's not what I meant at all.

What I implied was that "being available for pre-order" for a few months and actually being available TO order for a few months are two different things. And honestly most "professional" reviewers don't do a great job, especially talking about nuances in sound quality or really getting in depth into contents. But I enjoy reading comments on boards like this from early adopters with more spending money than I have.

 

I think that's kind of a lame reason to buy music, but that's just me. I don't think it's a gamble at all...if it's great music, everyone should be happy that more people are going to get to hear it. It's not a competition, although I know some seem to implicitly feel that way about collecting.

 

Whenever something goes out of print, everybody lose except the ones who bought them for resell purposes and the counterfeiters. By today’s business standards, it is impossible to keep these boxsets available forever.

My own experience is that every OOP item eventually comes back to the consumer’s market in one form or another (e.g. the KC massive boxsets serie). No need to lose sleep over a missing piece (pun intended). YMMV

 

I’d love for a mini box set to released, perhaps featuring all the studio albums and a 2 or 3 CD live highlights set.

 

A box similar to what you’re describing did come out recently, but it only covers the second half of the catalog. I got it to complete my collection of the original albums, but now that I’ve got the big box on preorder I’ll likely sell this one once it arrives.



Gentle Giant - I Lost My Head - The Chrysalis Years (1975-1980)

 

Can anyone clear up some confusion about the sources for the Playing the Fool tracks. Wikipedia lists the supposed source for each track, but many of those same tracks are included on disc 23-26 of the box and labeled as "Unreleased material from the 'Playing the Fool' gigs". I'm assuming that Wikipedia is wrong. Does anyone know the actual recording dates for those tracks on Playing the Fool?

Playing the Fool - Wikipedia

 

Playing the Fool collates those tracks with a different mix. That might be the reason why they are labelled as 'unreleased material'. I'm pretty sure Wikipedia is correct, at least on the first three tracks, which I have recently heard in both versions.

 

So it appears that all of the tracks from Playing the Fool are repeated across CDs 23-26 in their unedited full-length state. The only exception is "Sweet Georgia Brown", which apparently was just played once in Brussels while they were dealing with the keyboard problems that ruined most of the recordings from that night.

Giving in to my OCD nature, two complete shows from 1976 can be reconstructed. The entire Sept. 23 Düsseldorf show is here in the proper set list order, although "Funny Ways" is just a 43 second snippet. (tape problems?) The version from Munich, also used on Playing the Fool, is a good replacement. And the Oct. 5 Paris show is complete except for the first three songs, which are conveniently included on the Sept. 25 Munich tapes. The Oct. 10 Brussels tape has the final three songs, so you could replace those three Paris songs for even more of a Frankenstein construction.

But what about "Sweet Georgia Brown"? It was almost certainly played before the three Brussels songs on CD 24 while they were waiting for the keyboard problems to be sorted out. So I'd just slot it in between "Funny Ways" (Paris) and "Timing / Violin Solo" (Brussels).

As an aside, the 2015 Octopus reissue on Alucard had a bonus track, "Excerpts From Octopus (Live 1976)". I haven't tried to compare yet, but there are three 1976 versions in the new box. Anyone know which one it is?

 

I've heard it recently (this release) . If I remember correctly, it's from Paris.

 

The 2015 "Excerpts from Octopus" was remixed by Steven Wilson, and is therefore a different version from the same performance on 'Playing The Fool'.

 

Yes it’s different, but still taken from Paris.

 

Thank you. I'm not so concerned about different mixes. But this means I don't need to hang on to the Alucard CD just for that one track.

 

Correct, you don't need the Alucard for that particular track. Well, SW's remix does sound good, but I don't mind the other mix...

 

Is this the new definitive mastering of Gentle Giant's albums? How's the DR values? Cheers.

 

I can only speak for a few albums, as I haven't heard the entire set.

For 'In a Glass House', I'd say yes 100%. Nice mastering with full dynamic range.

The albums that were already released as hi-res flat transfers (Octopus, Three Friends, GG and The Power and The Glory) don't sound too different in this remastered set, apart from being at a different resolution. I'd say the 2019 remasters are slightly better than the flat transfers (as it should be when something is mastered), but I'm also happy with the hi-res flat transfers.

Free Hand sounds very different than my 2009 remaster. I'm not sure whether in a good or bad way... better in dynamics but a bit too bassy/boomy? Don't know how else to describe it.

 

Do people enjoy or even prefer the Steven Wilson remixes around here?

 

I really like Steven's stereo mix of The Power and the Glory. Sounds basically exactly like the original, just cleaner.

 

OK, then my apologies.

Well, sure, but judging how many to print is always a challenge, and if they sell out pre-release, is that any different than a show that sells out in an hour? IT reflects that the item is/was a success, and I don't think any label wants to be stuck with lots of copies of a title - especially massive box sets like these - just to ensure they are available for many months. They're a huge investment for any label, but especially small indie ones.

That said, I hear ya and I feel ya. I just don't know how realistic it is.

Well, that's the very niche I've tried to fill: in-depth, extensive and context-setting reviews (my Giant review was, in fact, the longest I've ever written). Because of where I write, and also because I feel less capable of detailed assessments of the sonics, beyond what my ears tell me (and AAJ readers don't want to read those numeric charts folks here do, for the most part). So I focus more on the music and those who make it, with some discussion of sound, but admittedly sec0ndary to the primary mission. But I hope, if you've read it (if not, here you go), that you'll find it is exactly the kind of review you're talking about, at least when it comes to depth and detail. It is, especially with large box sets, what I aspire to do, so if I fail I accept all responsibility...but it is my objective.

Unfortunately, if you're talking print, most magazines won't give the kind of space you're looking for to get that kind of detail, even if the author would like to write at greater length...it's why I've hitched my horse to All About Jazz since 2004, as I'm not limited in any way (other than buy having to focus, more often than not, on jazz, though I can write about anything I like and at whatever length I figure the subject needs - the Giant was the longest, at 23,000 words, I've ever written). That said, there are also writers who just don't want to take the kind of time required to deliver extended reviews - beyond the actual writing, there's the listening (8-10 times is my usual requirement) and research. But doing these things is what gives me a big buzz WRT writing, so I can't think, for better or worse (!), of doing these reviews any other way. And it's been really gratifying to discover there is a place for such lengthy pieces.

Oh, and if you want to read extended interviews that are amongst the best I know, check out Anil Prasad and his Innerviews website. Beyond being about as broad, stylistically, as you're apt to find anywhere, Anil really knows how to get into deeper matters with his interview subjects, so even those who think of themselves as experts are likely to learn things they didn't previously know. I can't recommend Anil highly enough.

Anyway, sorry for the delay (been unwell) but apologies for the misunderstanding. I do hope, however, that while you may not like the realities, that you at least appreciate them. Putting these big box sets together is expensive, very time-consuming...so when it comes to indie labels like Madfish and Panegyric, they're as much labours of love as they are intended releases that they hope will sell well.

Cheers!

 

I certainly enjoy SW’s surround remixes of all GG’s albums he’s worked on. I think the music really benefits of the surround treatment. For the stereo remixes, they are also great but most albums are incomplete. Despite this, I do love his stereo remixes and use them as my go-to versions for mobile listening.

 

this set is no longer showing up on the collectors' choice site.

 

Slowly making my way through this set. What a band. You forget just how heavy and powerful the Giant was. The tour rehearsal tape especially confirms this. Skimming though the tour book I just can't help think this band got a really bum deal. Opening for The Groundhogs and Starcastle.... Opening for Starcastle in Moncton during a snow storm. Seemingly always the opener. I have no concept of how they persevered for as long as they did. They must have sensed quite early on that they were very much facing an uphill battle. Sure the proper book touches on this matter.

So far the live shows are sounding a little too low fi for me. Fairly used to this though from the Crimson boxes. We're lucky some keener recorded them in the first place though.