30-disc studio & live box coming from Gentle Giant

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by spice9, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. dennis the menace

    dennis the menace Forum Veteran

    Location:
    Montréal
    Yes, you're right, I forgot the FedEx duty fees of $37,14 for a grand total of $514. No other taxes. I have no idea of DR values.
     
  2. KCLizard

    KCLizard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montréal
    Dear "DR." John "DR" as for Doctor..., In Quebec the total tax rate is about 15% so it comes to about $492.

    As for DR values DR stands for Dynamic Range, this value is an indicator of how dynamic the music is. For myself this is an objective measure and I can rely to it, that does NOT means that the music will sound GREAT.

    If you want to hear that for yourself I suggest that you listen to Hendrix Live at The Fillmore East which has low DR values

    Album list - Dynamic Range Database
    Listen to the New boxset Songs for Groovy Children which is the "whole" well almost whole 4 shows.

    The DRs values for this is the following

    Jimi Hendrix 5CD Box Set of '70 Fillmore East Concerts Due Nov. 22, 2019
    I am sure you will notice a difference.

    Here is in one simple view my whole point

    Album list - Dynamic Range Database

    Now back to the main course, I have just finished reading your review and I have to admit that for myself this was the most interesting, cos I do not know much about GGiant history, also the music is STELLAR, I do have all the albums from the first GG up to Free Hand + the Fool, so for myself to shell out all this money , well I want to make sure I will be happy with my purchase. But as I have mentioned before, my wallet really dislike you... and I still really like your review, so what comes next, I guess a good night of sleep, may settle the case.
     
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  3. KCLizard

    KCLizard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montréal
    I am sure you have an idea that John Coltrane has played at the Village Vanguard No?
     
  4. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Just to be clear: I didn’t intend to suggest anything negative about folks who have an interest in the numbers. Just saying that, for me, since I’m almost 64 and have never been engaged n the audiophile world until very recently (2015), when I finally got a great, dream system (before, I usually had pretty average systems, so really didn’t know just how good things could sound in the comfort of my own home), such things never even crossed my mind. It was only when I got the system and began paying attention to some of the information on this subject.

    So, while I continue to love my system (Tetra/Leema/OPPO) and learn a great deal from folks on this forum (including people like your good self), I still don’t really get much from looking at the numbers, even though I can understand that they can have real significance.

    I actually just bought the Hendrix box at HDTracks, but haven’t yet listened to it barring a track or two.

    Thanks! When I’m done with the Floyd review later this week and start listening to stuff I’ve bought in the past month but have yet to really give a good listen (a lot!), I’ll definitely come back to this and check it out. Thanks a lot...I really appreciate it. I came to this forum, for the most part, to learn from folks who know more about the inner workings of recorded music. I mean, I spent a decade as house guitarist in a local studio, but that was back in the ‘80s/‘90s, all analogue, and things have changed a lot since then. ProTools was just starting to come into the picture when I stopped working with the studio. So, again, thanks!

    He he. You’re not the first guy to suggest that I’m a bad influence. All I can say is: sorry, man, I truly cannot help myself. :)

    Cheers, and thanks again!
    John
     
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  5. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Um, maybe I’m just plain brain-fried after five hours working on the Floyd box, but yes, I know (and have all the available recordings), but I’m not catching your drift...it may be a joke but I really am so shagged that I am not getting it... sorry! :)
     
  6. KCLizard

    KCLizard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montréal
    Look at his avatar, it is a picture from one of the disk enveloppe fro John Coltrane Live at The Village Vanguard, where he played in 1961 , If I remember correctly.

    Now DR. John, here is the killing question, Does The GGiant sounds great to your ear on your sound system?

    Does it sounds LOUD at low volume? Do you feel that you have a good margin to increase the volume and the sound quality is still there?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  7. eelkiller

    eelkiller Continental USA only

    John, thanks for all the work you did on the review. As for the DR, let someone else look after that. Somebody else will cover that eventually.
     
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  8. Dok

    Dok Forum Resident

    John, you really out did yourself on this review! How you kept all the threads and pieces together and in perspective is beyond me. Congrats!

    Kerry's comments about Neal Morse I did find however a little bit disturbing. I think Neal would be disappointed to see what Kerry had said given how much he loved the band and how he tried to emulate and pay tribute to them in Spock's Beard back in the day. There is another artist whose name I won't mention that is a big fan of the band that I heard Kerry had a similar reaction too. Having said that I have to agree with Kerry 100% about the emotion. That is really what set GG apart to my mind and gave them the special quality that still lasts until this day. I got the notice that my box is on its way!

    One small minor error I noticed unless you meant to say it that way. About 11 paragraphs down in the 'Loss and Major Shifts' section you said - "Kinnear's lead vocal". Probably thinking Kerry and Minnear at the same time. ;)

    I've always wondered about what happened to Martin Smith to cause him to leave. There isn't really any info out there on the web that I could find about his departure. From your brief comment I can now see why. I'm guessing there's not much more detail then that.

    Again, thanks for the fantastic job! Your really did this box and the band a great service!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  9. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Like I said, I’m really tired so the only response? A major D”OH!! :D

    Yes, the Giant sounds great...obviously some better than others (the audience recordings have been cleaned up as best as possible, but they’re still audience recordings, on par, a I wrote, with the King Crimson Larks’ Tongues in Aspic 40th 15-disc box audience sets.

    But I don’t they’re overly loud (certainly no louder than other well recorded music I’ve got...I mean, this ain’t ECM, but I hear dynamics and have played the remasters and some live stuff and varying volumes, depending on the day, my mood and how much I’ve gotta focus on writing vs listening.

    Hope that answers your questions, thanks for solving my quandary about what he meant. Again, D’OH!
     
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  10. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Thanks for the kind words!
     
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  11. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Thanks. Man. I really had a blast doing it, and honestly, I cannot tell you what I’m doing in an hour but I can juggle this kinda stuff in my head, believe it or not!

    I felt mixed about including it, to be honest, but felt it had to be mentioned in the context of how progressive rock has become something other than what it once was. With no disrespect to Neal Morse, his “everyone ready for a night of PROG?” And “the epic to end all epics” are two examples of what, I’m sorry to say and to what Minnear is referring, progressive rock has become: long, complex epics good, shorter, song-like forms bad. Not to generalize but I’ve heard people tell me that they don’t like such and such a song on a great Prog artist”s album because it’s “too simple.” Simple, of course, can be good.

    Neal’s a very talented guy, no doubt, and I felt a bit badly about including it, but I really did feel it needed to be addressed, especially in the context of why GG will not reform. I just don’t get the sense that they feel there’s a place for them where music is today.

    Yikes! I can’t fix on my iPad (am in bed now), but will fix tomorrow, with thanks. I’m pretty pleased , thanks to a group member here who has offered to give my articles an editorial once-over before publishing, that my recent articles have been particularly clean...but even two pairs of eyes, when looking at nearly 23,000 words, can miss something like that. So thanks for the catch!

    While the issues between Smith and the others is documented in the book, no details beyond that are provided, sorry to say.

    Thanks...that’s very kind of you to say...and I hope, if they take the time to read it, that they feel the same way.
    Cheers!
    John
     
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  12. fRa

    fRa Conny Olivetti

    Location:
    Sweden
    Great read! Impressive!
    I'm still on the fence about this box set, need to know
    more about the remastering of the studio albums,
    in comparison with recent editions!
     
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  13. alakulju

    alakulju Music is the best! - FZ

    Location:
    Finland
    Firstly, a big thank you to John for thorough and professional review:tiphat: You just lifted me back to the fence with this box! After ordering two expensive Zappa boxes this fall, I don't know...
    The main issue for me is the quality of the live shows. I already have the studio albums, some of them in two different forms.

    Concerning Kerry's comment about Neal Morse, I have to disagree. IMHO Neal has an amazing talent to come up with catchy, and emotional, vocal melodies to be included in his prog epics. Gentle Giant's ability to squeeze 30 instruments and as many time signature changes in a 4-minute song is unparalleled in prog history. That ability has always made me admire and respect them, but still I rarely can feel any real emotion when listening to GG. Allaround allaround allaround allaround...
     
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  14. Comet01

    Comet01 Forum Resident

    Any Gentle Giant recommendations that feature the band's jazzy side?
     
  15. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I can’t compare all of them, as don’t have all the recent Alucard remasters. What I will say is: the benefit of having one guy remaster everything in a bunch brings a certain consistency to them (that is, as best as possible given limitations of what was on th original master tapes). And certainly, even comparing the 24/96 flat transfers on Steven Wilson’s Three Piece Suite, of the first three albums to Pete Reynolds CD remasters? I prefer the Reynolds.

    But the real reason for this box is documenting the band’s progress, across the decade, as a live act, with representations, of varying quality, from pretty much every tour and set list. So you get the best possible picture of that. Plus the two books are essential, especially in light of Paul Stump’s older, particularly lightweight book on the band that is, as someone mentioned, OOP and, ridiculously, sells for exorbitant prices around the web.

    Hope this helps.
    Cheers!
    John
    PS: thanks for the kind words about my writing...and for taking the time to read it!!
     
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  16. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Don’t get me wrong...I respect Neal Morse a great deal. But his very prolificity kinds bothers me. I have a lot of his stuff and enjoy some of it a great deal...but other stuff, like the recent Similitude of Dreams and it’s follow-up, as well conceived and executed as they are, leave me cold, filled with so many of the tropes that define progressive rock today...and not for the better. That said, I still love both V and Snow, from Spock’s Beard, where I think he was better at getting to an emotional place with his music, and his own Testimony I and II, which have some very evocative moments. So it really depends what Kerry saw/heard live, that may have led to the conclusion he did.

    But even from fan perspectives, all too often I hear great admiration for technical excellence and the ability to write and navigate very complex music. Nothing wrong with that, but you’ve gotta get to the heart of things, I think, and too many bands today saddled with the progressive rock epithet favour complexity over a good melody. Playing in odd/multiple time signatures is great...but at the end of the day it has to flow organically, and not sound forced, as I often hear.

    As for the live shows in Unburied Treasure? The audience ones are as best as they can be (again, like the Crimson LTIA box), but the soundboards, radio recordings and newly mixed multi-tracks sound fabulous, given the age and source (sometimes coming from cassette tapes). Certainly very clear and revealing. The audience tapes are too, though admittedly you have to listen a little harder.
    But there’s nowhere else that you can experience Giant’s full breadth and development as a live act and, more than many, they really did go through a lot of changes. So, while not wanting to sound like a shill (not my job!), my sense is if you’re on the fence, then you’re interested enough that, if you can afford it, you should take the leap. With only 2,000 copies, if you miss out, when they’re gone they’re gone.

    As for my review? Once again, thank you so much for such kind and generous words, and thank YOU for touching it out for almost 23,000 words! I really do appreciate the support more then most folks know. Since I cannot write like I used to, when the chronic fatigue came on mid-2014, that my writing continues to be well read and, for the most part, respected is of special importance to me. So thanks, man; the kind words of yours and others here and elsewhere really give me a boost.
     
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  17. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Free Hand, In’terview, The Power and the Glory and Octopus, in that order. Also, the live Playing the Fool, which has plenty of solo features, in particular Minnear’s sophisticated keyboard and vibraphone work.
     
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  18. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I bought the Gong box, because I can only cover so many large box sets. It is, in a word, stunning. And if I didn't suffer from CFS, I most certainly would have also written it up.
     
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  19. Dok

    Dok Forum Resident

    "Minnear briefly participated in the Giant semi-tribute band Three Friends, which also originally included Gary Green and Malcolm Mortimore, but left after a relatively short stay."

    He left because pressure was brought to bear by both Ray and Derek from what I heard. The Shulmans acted under the illusion like they needed Kerry, that they might be working on some new material together in the near future which obviously turned out to not be the case. They really didn't like the idea of Kerry performing with TF for some reason.
     
  20. giantleech

    giantleech Lord of all fevers and plagues

    Collector's Choice just sent me notice that my Brutal Dwarf box is on its way. I sure hope this puppy arrives from them in fine, crisp condition.
     
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  21. maki881

    maki881 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    How much do they charge for shipping from the Mirror Universe? ;)
    (I don't actually need an answer)
     
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  22. Mike burgess

    Mike burgess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk UK
    Mines on the way from Burning shed. Hopefully here tomorrow!
     
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  23. Mike burgess

    Mike burgess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk UK
    Received mine today! It is a visual and aural beauty! Get one quick before they sell out!
     
  24. McGoohan

    McGoohan Active Member

    Location:
    Hertford, UK
    Mine came today. I’m currently listening to the Steven Wilson remaster on the blu ray... Extraordinary, it’s another of those “the veil has been lifted” experiences. Fun days ahead!
     
  25. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    SW doesn't do remasters. I guess you are listening to one of his remixes.
     
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