SH Spotlight 45 RPM mastering "Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section", one of THE greatest albums of all time.

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Nov 12, 2002.

  1. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Mike,

    No, a direct dub of the master to make a "for sale" open reel copy would not be possible and it would damage the master to boot. A SAFETY or "running master" was used to make commercial copies. Still, some of them can sound mighty good!
     
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  2. Ambel

    Ambel New Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Don't forget the Art Pepper + Eleven these are fav records and of course
    Some Like it Hot. I was at Brian's place last listening to the mods that
    I do on his 300B amp and the Pre-amp and we put on Art Pepper's
    Rhythm Section we are blown away.
     
  3. Monsieur Gadbois

    Monsieur Gadbois Senior Member

    Location:
    Hotel California
    Hey Steve, after listening to it last night mine is a copy from the master(no echo), how cool, and the way, check this out:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=928898164
    :confused: :confused::eek: :eek: :) :) :D :D :D

    Mike
     
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  4. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident

    Hi Steve,

    It's a shame that all studio recordings don't sound that good. What went
    wrong with the recording industry?

    I get great pleasure listening to your DCC Golds of Intensity and Gettin' Together. They too sound very good. And also Sonny Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders.

    2 1/2 hours of sonic bliss.



    PS: Mikelakers you're a lucky guy
     
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  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Heck, some of our friends right on this forum don't think "Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section" sounds any good! At least not in stereo.

    The mono masters of "Way Out West" and "Rhythm Section" have double the amount of compression on them as the stereo "binaural" tapes so forget about 'em.
     
  6. Humorem

    Humorem New Member

    Location:
    LOS ANGELES
    Just a personal recommendation from a big Pepper fan:

    Check out Art Pepper Today on Galaxy. This has, in my opinion, the most powerful and emotional playing the man ever put on tape.

    On the cover he's not afraid to look like the junkie he was, and on the record he doesn't hold back anything. Amazing recording by Baker Bigsby, too. A good LP of this one sounds like a direct to disc. Don't know about the CD.

    This title, Meets... and Plus Eleven are all Must Own records.
    TP
     
  7. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Tom,

    Is "Today" the name of the record? I can't find a listing for that one. The Galaxy recordings listed on allmusic.com include:
    • Birds and Ballads
    • Artworks
    • Landscape
    • Straight Life [Galaxy/OJC]
    • Art Pepper with Duke Jordan in Copenhagen... [live]
    • Art Lives
    • Roadgame [live]
    • Renascence [live]
    • Art Standards
    and of course, The Complete Galaxy Recordings.

    I'm keen to get more Art Pepper, especially when recommended so enthusiastically.

    Regards,
    Geoff
     
  8. ZIPGUN99

    ZIPGUN99 Active Member

    You can get the CD of it as a Fantasy OJC (OJCCD-474-2) release.
    recorded late seventies.
    Tracks:
    1. Miss Who?
    2. Mambo Koyama
    3. Lover, Come Back To Me
    4. Patricia
    5. These Foolish Things (Remind Me Of You)
    6. Chris's Blues
    7. These Foolish Things (Remind Of You) (Alternate)
    Looks like this:
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Ronflugelguy

    Ronflugelguy Resident Trumpet Geek

    Location:
    Modesto,Ca
    Tom, i didn't think much of this record until I upgraded my system. And it does deserve a wow for both perfomance and sonics. Its one of those records that gets better as your equipment does! Much better than the AP revival Pepper titles sound.
     
  10. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident

    This is a great thread. The Art Pepper and Sonny Rollins Contemporary
    recordings are some of the most dynamic commerically releases I've ever heard. We currently have Meets the Rythym Section, Gettin Together, Intensity and Rollin's and The Contemporary Leaders. Plus Eleven and Smacked Up are also supposed to be very good as well.

    My 12 year old son who plays a mean Sax has Art Pepper is his preferred list of listening. Thanks for recommending some additional titles.
     
  11. Humorem

    Humorem New Member

    Location:
    LOS ANGELES
    As for Rollins, sound wise try to find this one: Alternate Takes
    on LP only


    AMG REVIEW: This LP contains alternate versions of selections from two famous Sonny Rollins albums: Way out West and Sonny Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders. These "new" renditions of "I'm an Old Cowhand," "Come, Gone," "Way out West" "The Song Is You," "You" and "I've Found a New Baby" (released for the first time in the mid-'80s) hold their own against the classic versions. Rollins is heard with bassist Ray Brown and drummer Shelly Manne on the first session and is joined by a four-piece rhythm section (including pianist Hampton Hawes and guitarist Barney Kessel) on the later date. In any case, the music is often hard-swinging and is frequently superb. -- Scott Yanow

    The best sound those albums have ever had (at lease until the new 45 versions come out).
    TP
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    On one of the Art Pepper Contemporary Studio master tape reels there is some Pepper outtakes (used as packing tape, I'm sorry to say). He makes a phrase and then blows right off the key and stops, utters a sigh and the splice comes just as he starts the phrase over (this one being good and spliced into the master take). The man even sounds good when he makes a mistake.

    His 1950's playing always sounds like he's right on the edge, tone wise. It's a brutally honest sound. He was really one of a kind, and virtually unknown outside the little jazz world that we all sometimes hang out in. A shame...
     
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  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Just listened again tonight.

    A great album!
     
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  14. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    So how does the Doug Sax SACD stack up in this comparision?

    I'm one of the unfortunate with only a digital front end, but would still like to hear a good version of this.
     
  15. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Kevin and Steve did an amazing job on the 5 I have so far. I still can't get over Miles Davis "Bags' Groove".

    These are only 1,000 pressed each, and worth every penny. I really hope they'll do Coltrane's Lush Life at 45. :angel:
     
  16. Larry Johnson

    Larry Johnson Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago area

    You can hear the sax echo in the right channel in the Doug Sax SACD.

    One more thing. The liner notes, which include a photo of Doug Sax in a mastering pose, state that the SACD is from "the original analogue tapes."

    How can anything other that the original master tape be "the original analogue tapes?"
     
  17. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    "The master tape" can be an elusive phrase.

    I can make a 16bit DAT from a Scotch master analog tape. For the CD, the DAT is more or less the master tape. Why someone would want to master from it is anyone's guess, but it happens.

    In this position, I'm positive Doug used the absolute master tape for the title. Just like it was for Steve and Kevin.
     
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


    Here is a quick way to tell if this is made from a copy of the master, or a copy of the EQ cutting master.

    Listen to the "rhythm" channel only (should be the right channel); in other words, the channel without the saxophone in it. The music should be dry as a bone, no echo. AND there should be no echo bleed through from the saxophone channel when the sax is soloing.

    If your tape is as described above, it's origin is the original two-track master.....If not, it's from the later generation "wet" EQ cutting master: This tape has added "stereo" type echo, and when the sax solos on the left channel, it's echo shows up on the right channel as well.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There shouldn't be any echo on the right at all! But, maybe Doug just added some himself. I'm sure he used the master tape.
     
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  19. Beatlelennon65

    Beatlelennon65 Active Member

    I bought this CD not too long ago and it is great. The sound isnt anything to get worked up over as it is just the regular CD release, but for a couple of bucks in the used bin it was a good buy.
     
  20. Blair G.

    Blair G. Senior Member

    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    What about the Art Pepper gold discs on Analogue Productions? Not the SACD's. They did "Rhythm Section", "+11" and "Smack Up". There a still a few around. How do they stack up against the SACD? I believe Doug Sax did them as well.
     
  21. Paul C.

    Paul C. Senior Member

    Location:
    Australia
    The first i ever heard AP Meets the Rhythm Section was on Japanese XRCD - I haven't yet heard it on any other versions. Notwithstanding the fact that the XRCD is not the ultimate version to be found on silver disc, I was blown away by the quality of this recording - sounds like it was recorded yesterday. The musicians are right there in the room. Pepper's sax is gorgeous. For a fairly impromtu session, they were really switched on. Couldn't go wrong with Red Garland in there.
     
  22. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    If there is no echo on the drums and if the channels were not folded in, it IS the ultimate version on silver disc.
     
  23. Evan

    Evan Senior Member

    I have a Japan only JVC CD from 1986 of AP Meets the Rhythm Section. It has echo on the Rhythm track. Still, it sounds pretty darn good to me. I hope to get my hands on Steve's version one day. It's a great album.
     
  24. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I've not heard the JVC version, but the other JVC's I've heard from Contemporary masters have all been dry as a bone; no added echo. Strange.
     
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  25. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    I have not heard the SACDs, but the Analogue Productions CDs are among the very few CDs I would rate on par with DCC's.

    MEETS THE RHYTHM SECTION (and Sonny Rollins's WAY OUT WEST) were simultaneously released by AP in two different remasterings, in a sort of engineering shoot-out, by Doug Sax and Bernie Grundman. I compared the WAY OUT WEST remasterings, and preferred the Grundman edition. And while I have not heard the Sax edition of MEETS THE RHYTHM SECTION, the Grundman edition of that title is among the dozen best-sounding discs I own.

    Grundman's work on these two discs is incredibly detailed without being etched or sharp, and the instruments enjoy great dynamics and weight. Steve has commented that Grundman's sound is like (high-end) solid-state, while Sax is like tubes. I guess I like solid-state!
     

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