45rpm's with "print-through"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by classicrockguy, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Just discovered this strange eerie thing after reading the Youtube comments under the 45rpm for Herb Alpert's "This Guy's In Love With You" - . Apparently some 45rpm's have the music start faintly in "ghost" form in the background several seconds before the actual music starts. I wonder how many were affected by this. I can hear it both times after he sings "if not i'll just die...",(about 2:40 and 3:56 or so) you can hear the horns start faintly in the background a couple of seconds before they actually start playing. Best heard with headphones on.

    I wonder how many other songs have this on the 45rpm's? One commenter mentioned the wolf howling sound at the beginning of "Hush" does the same thing

     
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  2. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    New Zack Island
    This sometimes happens on LPs as well. Think it depends how it was pressed at the plants and/or if the 'pre-sound' already was on the master tape.
     
  3. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    I noticed it on my 45 of Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Love", even on the pitiful portable plastic player I had at the time.
     
  4. MrEWhite

    MrEWhite Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I’ve had this happen with a couple of recent 33 1/3 records such as Avenged Sevenfold’s “The Stage.” Before the song started, you could hear the beginning of the first song very faintly. I’m pretty sure it persisted throughout the entire album too, as you could hear it during quiet parts.
     
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  5. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Village Green Preservation Society Member

    I always noticed it on lps.
    By the way I was wondering why it happens a few hours ago while playing some albums.
     
  6. Devin S

    Devin S Fate is a luxury

    From Steve Hoffman himself:

    Pre-echo. Caused by faulty mastering usually...Not to be confused with "print through" on tape.

    ...more here:
    "Ghosting" on vinyl?
     
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  7. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    New Zack Island
    I have a Scranton mono pressing of Meet The Beatles where Paul's intro vocals from 'All My Loving' can be heard twice before the actual track begins ("Close your eyes... Close your eyes... Close your eyes").
     
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  8. c-eling

    c-eling Love has no date of expiration...

    Many....
     
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  9. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Do you mean the part where he sings “way down inside...” and it echoes before he starts singing? I think that might have been done intentionally though it does sound like print-through
     
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  10. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    w
     
  11. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Which ones does this happen on? Would be curious to hear some others
     
  12. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    I just got flashbacks from this....im pretty sure ive heard it on a few albums as a teen but cant think of any
     
  13. NaturalD

    NaturalD Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass., USA
    I remember first noticing this on my old copy of Buzzcocks Singles Going Steady (IRS first press with the square band logo label) -- Everybody's Happy Nowadays had that pre-echo. I assumed the extra-long album sides were a factor.
     
  14. NaturalD

    NaturalD Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass., USA
    Audio serendipity -- pre-echo that is so widely familiar it just sounds perfect for the song.
     
  15. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    It has nothing to do with LPs or vinyl or anything like that. It's from the tapes used for mastering. From my understanding, it's reading the information on the strip below the top layer.
     
  16. Devin S

    Devin S Fate is a luxury

    An echo effect was applied to the recorded track. Then the tape was flipped over and played backwards, bouncing that to another track. When the tape is re-flipped and run forwards, the echo can be heard before the actual part. Done intentionally. Artistic decision.
     
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  17. Devin S

    Devin S Fate is a luxury

    Not always. Again, see Steve's comments in this thread:
    "Ghosting" on vinyl?
     
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  18. It's very common. In fact when listening through headphones I don't think I've ever encountered an LP which doesn't have the fault.

    Nothing new here I'm afraid!
     
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  19. classicrockguy

    classicrockguy Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    That’s what I thought mainly because I’ve never heard the song without that, even on cds etc
     
  20. Bug80

    Bug80 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Nope. I had this happen on a test pressing from an album I mixed and mastered (digitally, no tape was used). It was the first time I heard the effect on a test pressing and I got really scared that I made a huge mistake in mastering.

    But in the end the pressing plant confirmed it was their fault and the final product turned out just fine.
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    It is most often a by-product of the cutting process, not a tape defect. See post #7 in this thread: What Causes the Pre-Song On A LP?
     
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  22. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    By the way, what a GREAT song! Burt Bacharach is one of my musical heroes.
     
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  23. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    So in this case, however, from your definitions, it's tape print-through.
     
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Location:
    Marysville, WA
    No.

    At 45 RPM, the interval between "ghosts" is 1 and 1/3 seconds (1.33 seconds) -- the time it takes to make one disk revolution at this speed -- nothing to do with tape. It's in the lacquer cut, transferred to the final disk. Watch the little A&M logo while the sound plays. It's in the same position for the "ghost" and for the actual trumpet note, one revolution later.
     
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  25. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I get it now. It occurs at the same spot adjacent to the musical line. Thanks for that clarification.
     
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