50th Anniversary all things Beatles White Album

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by tinnox, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

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    I actually didn’t suggest that. What I did was explain how a concept that had been claimed to be completely unprecedented was actually entirely possible. I still haven’t heard the audio in question.
     
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  2. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    It sounds like a Fender Jazz bass on While My Guitar Gently Weeps.
    Also Fender VI was equipped with flatwound strings, the only strings available at that time for the instrument.
    When you listen to the bass track isolated you can hear the player's fret hand sliding on the strings in between the notes and it produces squeaking sound typical for the roundwound strings.

    Ondra
     
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  3. zipp

    zipp Forum Resident

    You may be right but Howlett says it's John on bass for both dates, so I don't see why you quoted him.

    Ondra said in the past it was definitely John and now he's saying it's definitely Paul.

    I know why he's changed his mind and it relies on the talking before take 17.

    BUT I think the voice answering Paul at the beginning is George not John so maybe Paul was giving some indication to George about his guitar part. George seems to start saying "So when it goes down.." and is then cut off by Paul. What if John came in later and took over the bass? That would then be John on the take used and explain why the playing is not up to Paul's standards.

    So I still say John on bass on the record.
     
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  4. Ern

    Ern Senior Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    They had a right handed Jazz bass available.
     
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  5. BuCo

    BuCo A guy who can't have enough Super Deluxe box sets

    Location:
    New York City
    I guess I posted what Howlett said in the deluxe book so people could easily quote him if they wanted, even if I do disagree with him :p
     
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  6. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    Yes. But John seemed to prefer Fender VI with its shorter scale similar to guitar though.
    I highly doubt he would overdub Fender Jazz bass on While My Guitar Gently Weeps when Paul (and George) were available for the task.

    Ondra
     
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  7. Ern

    Ern Senior Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    On Helter Skelter, Howlett doesn't provide info based on studio papers or audio takes, he just quotes Mal Evans. Not great help from him.
     
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  8. MCK57

    MCK57 Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Northport NY
    John playing bass on Fixing A Hole is confirmed in the 50th anniversary deluxe box set,WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT???

    Nearly everyone who has listened to the bass playing on HS and plays the bass says it is rudimentary at best,does that sound like Paul's bass playing? Then we hear that the bass player is having trouble keeping up with his bass playing on the song,does that sound like Paul's bass playing?
     
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  9. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    It's in the recording details section, even though the author says "probably played by John". He It was also claimed by Richard Lush. He said that he remembers John playing Fender bass on that track.

    Paul can play a simple bass when that's what the song needs. Hey Jude, Let It Be... is that typical Paul's bass playing? Doesn't mean it's not him.

    Ondra
     
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  10. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

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    US
    :righton:
     
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  11. paul62

    paul62 Forum Resident

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    Fast forward a few months from The White Album sessions to January 1969 where The Beatles jam on "The Palace Of The King Of The Birds": John plays some hypnotic melodic bass on his Fender VI.
     
  12. zipp

    zipp Forum Resident

    That's not a confirmation. I think sometimes you have to admit that we have doubts but we don't know for sure.
     
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  13. Ken Wood

    Ken Wood Forum Resident

    So quick before the gremlins strike again: Ondra, I think Paul is talking to the control room, telling them to do that tape-spooling-thing at the end. Yes John does reply and yes, I still think he is on guitar and Paul on bass.
     
  14. MCK57

    MCK57 Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Northport NY
    Yes i know it's in the recording details but NOTHING is confirmed about the bass playing on that song as you say it is.Howlett tries to say it might be John on bass on the basic track at Regent Sound and that is based on what?Richard Lush was not allowed to go to Regent so he is saying John played the bass at Abbey Road and on a Fender bass that The Beatles didn't even have at the time.Paul is also listed as having played the bass on the song but at which studio did he do it at?If John did play bass on one of the tracks of the song then what bass guitar was he using??Howlett says there are two basses on the song but how,who and where was this done?

    Yes Paul can play a simple bass when the song calls for it and he can play whatever you want him to play on bass however you want him to play it.The person playing bass on Helter Skelter seems to be having some trouble playing bass on the song and that just can not be Paul McCartney.P.S. think Mal Evans.
     
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  15. Frank

    Frank Senior Member

    The discussion is pretty much moot if no one is allowed to post evidence.
     
  16. Ken Wood

    Ken Wood Forum Resident

    Ah, now I get it - the post with the short sound clip Onder posted has been deleted - and thus my posting too as I retained it in the quotes.
     
  17. Peter_R

    Peter_R Maple Syrple Gort Staff

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    If the work doesn't belong to you, if you don't own the copyright on it, then it is not up to you to decide if it gets distributed, shared or downloaded.
    It is an across the board rule on this forum, and there are repercussions to breaking that rule.
     
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  18. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    Couldn't we just use this official upload of the track from youtube for discussion?

     
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  19. zipp

    zipp Forum Resident

    I think the first part of your post is about Fixing A Hole. If so then in the Beatles Gear book by Andy Babiuk we can read : "I do remember that Lennon played the bass on that track. He used a Fender bass on it. If you play the album, you can pick it out because it's very simple, and a ploppy sort of sound. It didn't sound as rich as Paul's Rickenbacker bass". It's from an interview done by Babiuk himself on December 20 1996. It's possible that Lennon played the bass both at Regent and at Abbey Road since it was just a question of bolstering the sound recorded at Regent with the same musicians on the same instruments.

    As for Helter Skelter I'm coming round to the idea that John played bass on the first version and Paul on the second, but there's nothing absolutely definite about it.

    Incidentally, since we're talking about HS, does Howlett say we can hear Lennon saying 'Fanny Craddock' on the released version? Has anybody ever heard it?
     
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  20. Ken Wood

    Ken Wood Forum Resident

    Well that sound snippet (more talk snippet actually) we discussed is not contained here. I think it was a Rock Band bit.
    We can still talk about it - it had Paul talking to the control room about a idea he has for the end, illustrated by singing a bit of it and ending on a bass note, requesting the accidental tape-spooling sound (of the reverb device) of the earlier version to be applied there and John chiming in suggesting to follow that with a distorted a-chord on electric guitar, demonstrating this. At least that is how I heard it and that suggested to me Paul=bass, John=guitar.
     
  21. MCK57

    MCK57 Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Northport NY
    All well and good except Howlett says John is most likely playing bass at Regent Sound and says Paul also plays bass on the track then Paul's bass must have been done at Abbey Road.If Paul's bass was done at AR then Richard Lush has got to be wrong,correct?Howlett says Paul plays harpsichord on the song but also says George Martin also plays harpsichord on the song.He says Paul is most likely playing it at Regent but GM says HE is playing it at Regent.If Paul is playing the harpsichord at Regent then it's possible that John is playing bass but what bass is he playing? Why couldn't it be George H?If GM is playing harpsichord at Regent then it must be Paul on bass at Regent not John.I could go on with the possibilities for who and where the bass was played but i am sure you can figure them out.One thing is for sure, there is a problem with who did what on Fixing A Hole!!

    As for Helter Skelter i will say this just one more time:On Sept.9th '68 and into the early hours of the 10th The Beatles recorded the song and for at least ten takes Mal Evans was playing a trumpet along with them.When he went home that morning he wrote about the song in his diary and made special mention in that diary that John Lennon was playing the bass on the song not Paul McCartney!!He wrote it that morning,not a week later or a month later or a year later but THAT MORNING.
     
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  22. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    It's clear from the Regent sound outtake that it's not George Martin on harpsichord because he can be heard speaking from the control room while Paul is noodling on the harpsichord. GM was probably misremembering the session.

    The basic track was done at Regent studio with Ringo on drums, Paul on harpsichord, (probably) John on bass and George on maracas.
    Then at the very end of the recording process the backing track was doubled (sans maracas) at Abbey Road. This enhancing track helped to mask the poor Regent studio bass playing. But obviously the bass was not the only reason for this enhancement track because the drums and harpsichord were repeated too. Geoff Emerick complained that the Regent backing didn't have nice top end, so they probably wanted to correct the bass AND add some top sheen.
    I think that they recorded this enhancement track at Abbey Road in the same line up as they did the backing at Regent for two reasons.
    Richard Lush who was at the Abbey Road session for the enhancement track overdub did claim that he remembers John playing Fender bass on the track. Plus this new bass playing features similar errors and timing troubles as heard on the Regent backing albeit in different places so they're masking each other quite succesfully.

    As for which bass was it? Could be any bass lying around, it's a recording studio after all.

    Ondra
     
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  23. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    That's pure speculation on you part. There's no way how you can tell when Mal Evans wrote an entry in his diary.
    We don't even know if the info comes solely from his diary or he if was writing by memory as well.
    There are more errors from him. Like the drums on Why Don't We Do It In The Road.
    He also claims that While My Guitar Gently Weeps features George and John on acoustic guitar. But there's just one acoustic by George.
    BTW, when Ringo describes Helter Skelter in Anthology he's talking about his drums and Paul's bass line.

    Ondra
     
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  24. Ern

    Ern Senior Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    ,
    Also, Mal didn't record his trumpet part live on the basic track takes, it was overdubbed the next day, 10 September 1968.

    The basic track takes, recorded on 9 September 1968, consisted of Drums, Bass, and two Guitars.

    On one of the Monthly Beatle Books, Mal mentions that Billy Preston doesn't participate on Don't Let Me Down, which is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  25. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Source?
     
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