Maybe they were two guitars played like in Lady Madonna? Doing basically the same thing and not being easily distinguishable. In the video I posted above, you can hear, at some point, two different guitars at the same time; But that could be just two different snippets joined together by the Rock Band crew. The book contained in the box set says that two guitars were recorded onto the same track, from take 4. Thanks for the warning. I thought it was allowed, since I've seen many videos like that posted here (not uploaded by official channels).
Could you be more specific? What exactly each one of them play? And are the guitars on just one track or two tracks? You say they're spread over two, but Howlett in his book says both are on one track. It's quite confusing. Edit: I've just given the Rockband iso track a listen and there's definitely just one guitar on the rhythm guitar track. It's basically John hitting open E string on first two 8th notes followed by chord strumming (16th notes). He's hitting the E string very hard so the string's getting out of tune with the attack. In the first verse when he changes the chord from E to G he plays the G quite poorly and yet it doesn't get covered by a second rhythm guitar. Ondra
Yes as Ken said we're talking about something very specific and it's NOT Farid el Atrache. It would be really cool if you could give it a listen at around 7 mins30 and tell us if you think it's Ringo or not.
Also, during the end, John (or George?) hits the strings only once per beat, and, there, it sounds like a single guitar to me. The thing is: is it possible that the book contained in the box set has so many errors? It would be a very negative thing, I must say. They say the guitars were two, now I'd really like to hear all the Helter Skelter takes (that'll happen, maybe, in another 50 years). If John is on rhythm guitar, I'd find quite strange that George wouldn't play on Helter Skelter. Maybe he's added just some overdubs? It appears that the overdubbed guitars are two, or even three: one doing the descending riffs and some solos, played by McCartney, I guess. The same guitar (I think) can be heard at 2:46 of the Rock Band stems, doing a descending thing with a tremolo bar. Is that possible? The other one (or two) guitars are doing, again, the descending riffs, but only from 2:38 to 3:10 (and the sound of them is different from the other two guitars: it's less distorced, and a little more "clean"). It's quite a mess...
This guy on the video, covers the guitars on Helter Skelter pretty well (and other songs too). And from his playing, I guess you're right, there's only one guitar playing the rythm on the basic track takes. The other two lead guitars were overdubbed later.
It's also worth noting that the (You're So Square) Baby I Don't Care jam from the same session features also just one guitar. Ondra
This is really interesting. Although I think that the parts played by the Telecaster (at 1:34 and 2:03) are played by the same guitar that plays the descending riff. At this point, I find that it's very strange that Harrison's contribution to Helter Skelter is so small, if there's anything at all.
The compilation of Rock Band audio bits refered to above does include a couple of Helter Skelter moments. This bits are played during loading the track in the game I think and it hard to tell how they connect to each other, where they start and end, in which order they happened or if they were somehow edited or tampered with. The Rock Band bits have been found to be a jumbled mess, sometimes combining different recordings in different order and even sometimes combining speech with differing instrumental background sounds. I tried to split them into segments nevertheless. BTW these bits are in stereo! Segment 1: 3:49 - 3:59 Guitar, bass and snare incoherently playing parts of the theme. No chat. Probably a pre-take warm-up. At 3:47 a glissando sound appears for a moment. This does not sound like coming from any instruments played here. To me it sounds like a tape ramping up to speed. Also reminds me of the ultimatly unused guitar (or vocal) loop prepared for Revolution 9. Segment 2: 3:59 - 4:03 (continuing from previous segment?) P: "of the end, if it`s going there at the end, do that winding-back-the-tape thing." As reported via Lewisohn during take 3 of the first version (not explictly stated so but it has to be this one) the engineers noticed that the tape-echo tape would be running out around the 15-minute-mark. So the stopped it while the take was still going on, rewinding it and prompting Paul to do some vocal improvisation around it. I think this is what Paul refers to here, talking to the control room, wanting this accident to be recreated on purpose for effect. If you listen to 3:13 of Take 17 you actually do hear a tape being spooled back right after Paul stops singing (and indeed when he starts talking after the take his voice is without tape-echo). However this does NOT sound like the tape sound in Segment 1. Segment 3: 4:03 - 4:17 (likely continuing from previous segment) P: "... because I`ve just to end upon (sings) Helter Skelter (snare roll), Helter Skelter yeah, Helter Skelter. (single E bass note) I just sort of fall out of it so watch me already (some low bass notes during this)" J: "So jump on the A" (another E bass note and a slightly late cymbal hit during this. Then a distorted guitar chord follows. I hear that chord as an A5 / Esus (same thing). I think John suggest that Paul ends on an A here and illustrates it by playing it. Segment 4: 4:17 - 4:32 (clearly a different audio bit) A distorted electric guitar fades in, playing around, during this a snare-roll starts. P: "Hello-oh-oh-oh-oh" Cymbal crash ends the snare-roll. More warm-up playing-around of drums, bass and e-guitar. Segment 5: 4:32 - 4:33 (overlapping with last segment but possibly still a recording on it`s own, being crossfaded by the Rock-Band makers) P: "One of us" Segment 6: 4:33 - 4:39 (probably continuing from previous segment) Heavy echo here, possibly edited that is why I take it down as individual lines. P: "Even though they might not be singing it alone" P: "I`m just trying to (sings) when I get to the bottom, I (talks) and they use their magic" Segment 7.1: 4:39 - 4:41 (different ambience = new audio bit) Bass repeatedly plays one note P: "It`s high on bass" (or "higher bass"?) I think Paul wants to express that he plays that note high up on the fretboard Segment 7.2: 0:07 - 0:09 This is an alternate version of Segment 7 from the start of Take 17! Bass repeatedly plays one note P: "solo gear" While the bass is the same, Paul`s studio talk is not. It is lower and starts one beat later. It is hard to hear what is being said. So we have two different combinations of bass and speech - hard to tell which one (if any) is the more authentic one. Also note that we will find the next segment missing from Take 17 but that a tiny bit of electric guitar burst seems to be heard at the end of this segment, so it might have originally been there but edited out for Take 17. Segment 8: 4:41 - 4:43 (possibly a audio bit on it`s own or belonging to the previous or next) Just the electric guitar vamping on a chord Segment 9: 4:43 - 4:45 (again heavy echo on vocals = different ambience to Segment 6) P: "has extra on the first verses" Segment 10.1: 4:45 - 4:49 (lesser echo again it seems) Bass repeatedly plays one note, during which Paul starts singing: P: "Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh - when I get to the bot..." Bass stops before "bot". Segment 10.2: 0:11 - 0:15 (lesser echo again it seems) Bass repeatedly plays one note, during which Paul starts singing: P: "Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh - when I get" This alternate version of the segment again comes from Take 17. It misses the "to the bot" at the end. The bass seems to ring out though, so this might not be merely be cut short but just the vocals faded down early. Or some other manipulation. Segment 11: 4:49 - 4:49 (continuing from previous segment - 10.1 - ?) A short muted succession of bass notes. Segment 12: 4:49 - 4:51 (possibly continuing from previous segment) P: "Helter Skelter" (like anouncing the song/take, more echo here again so maybe a bit of it`s own) I don`t know wether this youtube file caught all the Helter Skelter bits and wether others are found in similar studio-chat sequences as found in Anthology, the album short films, 8DAW or whatever I missed. There is at least one bit missing here as it has not been identified to come from this session - the "Mark it fab" bit from the end of Take 17. About Take 17, this is what we hear at the beginning of it: Segment 6, Segment 7.2, Segment 9, Segment 10.2 It then continues with: P: "WEEELLL! whoo-whoo-whoo-whoo-whoo-whoo... (feedback, burst of instruments, engineer announces "Helter Skelter Take 17") 1, 2, 3, 4!" My possibly misguided impression from all these bits is that Paul plays the bass, John the distored guitar, Ringo drums and I have no idea what George does - he seems not be present. Corrections of my transcriptions/interpretations, info about the way/order/lenght of these bits as they appear in the game, pointing to bits from other sources I missed all very welcome.
Found at least one more bit: Helter Skelter Take 19 pre-take-chat (Same in "The Beatles On Record" and "The Beatles" mini-doc) Paul has heavy echo on his voice here, Ringo doesn`t. P: "Was that that in the one bit (sings) Paaauul" Snare hits R: "I want that bit on beha.. on behalf of me, Sir" P: "Another one" R: "One bad bit in that one" P: "Ey?" R: "A bad bit ..." P: "Oh yeah" R: "... it won`t make fake so. (snare drum) I got a bit" ? (distant): "That there" Engineer: "Take 19"
Very interesting, thanks! This is why I fear these snippet might have been manipilated. It's the strongest evidence that Paul plays bass on Helter Skelter, but it could feature two different times (one where Paul sings, and one where the bass plays). Although I highly doubt that, if they're two different snippets joined together, they would be so perfectly in sync with each other (although that's not impossible). I can't understand why they faded out Paul's voice at the "When I Get...". If it's not really possible to determine that Paul was on bass, at least there still are other clues which indicate that Paul was not on guitar: as many said before, on take 17, he thinks the guitar, at half song, repeats the first bar another time, which the guitarist doesn't do, and that prompts Paul to make a mistake, singing "When I get to the la la la la la...". And the fact that Paul is instructing the guitarist to have an extra bar at the beginning. Also: at 4:31, two guitars can be heard simultaneously (one guitarist is tuning the high E string, the other one is on a G chord). But that might be a Rock Band "manipulation". Exactly my thoughts. I also have to say that, in my previous post, I thought the part at 1:34 on the Helter Skelter cover video was done by the same guitar as at 2:03. But that seems to be incorrect, since the tones are quite different (the part at 2:03 has more distortion). So, after all, they might be two different guitarists (George and Paul?).
Are you sure you're listening to the right bit? Can you describe who you hear and what he or she is singing? Thrivingonariff thinks the second part is a woman. This is very doubtful indeed.
"Yellow Chatter Custard" (a chat compilation made by Helter Skelter, revised at least 5 times, no idea which one I got) contains the same Rock Band bits like in the YouTube-video, only assembled in a different way. Bear in mind that a lot of thought went into this set (no idea how the Youtube person went about). Yet it was done before WA 50. If Take 17 is anything to go by (and it omits two or three bits that were found in sequence in both sources), then this suggests that Helter Skelter made some sequencing choices that don`t quite fit. However it is still very helpful for arranging what we have into "Blocks of segments" (as I like to call it now), especially by comparing it to the Youtube source. Let`s first see how Helter Skelter went about: Segments 1 Segments 8, 9, 10.1, 11, 12 Segments 4, 5, 6, 7.1 Segments 2, 3 However, as I said, now that we got Take 17 I have determined that: Segments 6, 7. 2, 9, 10.2 form a unit here So without further ado I boldly claim for now that there are 4 blocks of segments: Block 1: Segment 1 Block 2: Segments 2, 3 Those first two blocks are in themselves both coherent in both "releases" but in no particular order and must be considered stand-alone Block 3: Segments 4, 5, 6 (with 6 possibly crossfaded in there and preceding the next block) Block 4: Segments 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 (as found in Take 17 with variations in 7 and 10 and omissions of 8, 11, 12). Those last two blocks may be connected in this order or seperate items. With a bit of leeway with Block 3 and Block 4 we can extend and enhance the intro of beloved Take 17 of WA 50. However Apple might have put the whole sequence before Take 17 (before Paul`s "WEEELLL") by picking it from somewhere else in the session. Wether the Apple edit of the Rock Band edit (or none) represents the authentic version we cannot tell. However I dare to say we can assume that at least Block 4 is an item of it`s own, playing in sequence, with three versions of two "releases" overlapping rather perfectly. I strayed a bit from the "who is playing bass" discussion here, never mind. But I just wanted to wrap my head around this and find a order that makes the most sense (not that I can`t be outdone on this).
It really wasn`t that complicated thanks to the work people did before - just inserting a few tracks into the free version of Adobe Audition, taking some notes, doing some edits and moving it around to see where stuff fits! It looks much more complicated than it was.
I listened to the part from 7:30 to 7:40 and don't hear Ringo. I hear someone at 7:31 singing something like"oh yeah" and at 7:34 something sort of like "that's so sweet" and at 7:39 "I miss you" (not exactly but that sort of sound). Yoko is talking and John is doing his low gravelly "it's gonna be alright". No sign of Ringo.
OK. Thanks for listening. I don't hear "oh yeah" or "that's so sweet" at any point. At around 7:20 ther's someone whistling, from 7:32 to 7:36 there's "or you" or "follow you", and then "you'll know it's me". From 7:39 to 7:41 someone is also maybe singing "I will miss you" but it isn't necessarily the same voice as before and it's very hard to make out. The part that sounds most lilke Ringo to me is "know it's me" since the vocal wavers in true Ringo style. You did of course earlier point out that Rev 9 originates from the extended version of Rev 1. But whereas we apparently have some of Paul's piano on Rev 9, I don't think we hear much of Ringo's drumming on there. Perhaps a very little bit around 7:00. I used to classify this track as a John and George collaboration because they're the ones we hear the most. But now I find it hard not to acccept that all the Beatles took part in some small or big way.
Great work, thanks! I've also discovered that the bit at 4:26, where two guitars are playing together, is in fact another "manipulation". I think the guitar (being tuned) can be heard on the left, alone, and on the right, through Paul's microphone. Then, on the left, another snippet takes its place (guitar being strummed, G chord), while, on the right, it's still audible the same guitar being tuned, always through Paul's microphone. At this point, I can't really know which snippet is "genuine" and which is not. Seeing that here are a lot of "important" members... no one has any kind of contact with people who might give us the definitive answer? The "who plays bass" question has been going on for years...
Oh I'm very much interested in this. On one hand yes, John's vision for this, and probably inspired by Yoko or just wanting to impress her, led to "Revolution 9" as we know it. And yes George is the only Beatle to help John record some dialog pieces for the track. But at the same time, the entire song is built on top of a jam that all four of them did together, and little bits and pieces of that jam peak through in the final edit. And if you listen to Take 18 of Revolution, you hear John stop and say "I've had enough" but it is Paul and the others that keep going, jamming several minutes more, especially Paul's singing and avant garde piano playing, which is what I think we are all hearing toward the end of the master track. If anything, Revolution Take 18 should lend more credit to the Beatles as a unit for "Revolution 9" even though the accepted myth is that it was pretty much a John & Yoko show, that's not 100% accurate IMHO. I'm convinced that Paul's piano playing is on REV9...Someone with keener ears will have to say whether they hear any Ringo drums coming through in the track though.
The youtube video I posted on the previous page (the one with the Rock Band snippets of Helter Skelter).
Well spotted! I think it might be different recordings of the same guitar. The "tuning" indeed goes on in the other channel. This is followed by the "one of us" comment that seems faded in over the fade out of the guitar - another puzzler.
I hear the "for/follow you", then "xxx now? follows? me", and then you can hear another verse fading out. I've always thought that this was Paul, and the melody sounds pretty familiar, but I've never been able to place it. It comes almost immediately after the Farid al Atrash sample: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu6Dtj2Y568&t=369s
Well it certainly doesn't sound at all like Paul to me. But I agree that the song being sung sounds frustatingly familiar yet impossible to identify.
