8 Track Travesties

Just found this thread - linked to from another one.

Isn't "8 Track Travesties" redundant?

When I first went to Atlantic as a young engineer back in 1978, my first task was making cassette and 8 track "masters" for replication. I never took to 8-tracks myself for several reasons but there I was, creating the tapes used to make them.

I learned at the time, that most companies just put the program onto the cartridge without consideration for the fact that songs would be interrupted during the switches to new pairs of tracks as the end of the tape loop was reached during playback. I remember riding in my cousin's car, listening to the Allman Brothers at the Fillmore, being jarred by the sudden stop in the music, then its reappearance a few seconds later (with the music from that gap missing).

There are three ways one can deal with this fact of life about looping cartridges:

1. Not worry about it, which was apparently how many were made.

2. Worry about it and try to make the best of the situation, which is what Atlantic (and the Warner labels) did. The "solution" my bosses came up with and assigned to their new engineer (me), was to first re-sequence the album, trying to get as close as possible to four equal length programs. The purpose here was to avoid long silences at the end groups of songs that would make up the shortest ones of the four programs put onto the cartridge. (Never mind about the artistic effect changing the sequence had.)

Second, since getting four equal length programs from most albums doesn't happen more than once out of a hundred or more records, they wanted me to further match the program lengths by having some songs go across the end of loop track switch points. Rather than have the abrupt cutoff of music, followed by the abrupt return, they wanted me to fade the song (wherever in the song we happened to be when the time came). Then, before the song re-appeared on the next track pair, they wanted me to rewind the original tape and fade up, across the same 10 seconds or so that faded out at the end of the previous pair of tracks. Their "thinking" was that in this way, none of the music would get lost. (!)

3. My favored approach would be to leave all the songs intact, in their original sequence and if there were long silences, that was just the fact of 8-track life. I may have even done this on some of them (but can't recall). Of course, sometimes those silences were a few minutes long.

Ultimately, "solution" #2 is what my bosses had me do. They found the fade-out and fade-up preferable to the "long wait".

I'll always remember one particular day, when I was working on an 8-track for a Coasters "Best of" (don't recall the exact album title) and while "Charlie Brown" was playing over my monitors, Mick Jagger, who was in the studio at the time with the Stones, walked into the room. We talked a bit about the Coasters and what great music they made. Then we talked about 8-tracks. Mick said something like "Anyone that buys an 8-track deserves whatever they get."

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

That's pretty funny!

So, if I remember correctly from taking one apart as a kid, the tape would feed from the center of the reel, and wind onto the outside?

What was the maximum recording time?

I remember when I first heard mention of a 4-track Portastudio, thinking that it was another format, like the 8-track cartridge.

 

To this day I'm still surprised and puzzled at the popularity 8-track tapes enjoyed during the 70's. It seemed to be the format that most compromised the listening experience. From the quality of the masters used to switching the order of songs around to accomodate the short running time of each program. Not to mention the sometimes fragile outer shells the tapes were housed in. I remember accidently dropping a cartridge on the ground and it shattered apart like an egg!

 

I saw carts from both sides... as a retail worker, I wish I had a nickel for every time someone asked what to do about blown out 8-tracks... "throw them away, and get a cassette deck" was my stock answer. I have a pal (who now works for Sundaze) who had all his rarities on 8 track, 'cause that is what was in his Mustang.

Radio carts were a different matter...

One of the funniest radio moments I recall (and, yes there were many):

At KSAN, they had a rolling, revolving cart rack. A tall cylinder sort of thing... one late night in a "playful mood" Sean Donahue decided to give the rack a spin. It was an unexpected lesson in physics. As the rack hit max velocity... all the carts flung out in unison. It was like the rack was blooming. They all came out a uniform distance, and then hung there in space for a moment. Then, they all crashed to the floor. I think we all must have fallen to the floor too, in a fit of unstoppable laughter... Sean made his hapless friend Bruno Coleslaw pick 'em up and put them back in the rack, in order!

I gotta write down some of these other stories someday... phew we did have some fun when no one was around.

 

Here's one that involves carts in a different way.

For those who haven't worked in radio, when you reused a radio cart -- that is, got rid of an old commercial to put a new one on it -- you first had to "bulk erase" it. Most cart decks didn't have an erase head, so you ran the cart over a powerful magnet to "clean off" the old material before recording the new.

The problem is, production people would sometimes forget to do this, and then commit the second sin of not listening to their new finished production before putting it in the rack.

The result at a station I worked at: someone had recorded (God knows why) a portion of the audio from a TV show Leonard Nimoy was hosting at the time -- I can't call it to mind, but it was a documentary-type show. This cart was reused without first being bulk-erased, so that when the commercial ended, about 10 seconds of the previous material was heard clearly.

Regrettably, the Nimoy program in question was an examination of Nazi Germany, so our listeners heard several rounds of "Sieg heil!" after the spot for a local merchant.

 

Yes, I remember No Quarter on HOTH. I hated that.

Also, about the 4:30 mark into Jessica on Brothers and Sisters by the Allman Brothers.

I also had a homemade 8 track of jukebox songs that faded right in the middle of The Entertainer by Tony Clarke. I was so happy to get that song again when CDs took over.

 

JOURNEY - ESCAPE

IIRC, the break is half-way through Neal's guitar solo on DON'T STOP. However, they replay the entire solo on the other side. Weird!

 

Hi AndrewS,

I think that's about right.

Don't remember that. Maybe someone else here does.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I wonder if Mick is aware that the Some Girls 8-track is now a collectible due to the presence of two alternate mixes to the lp of that album?

 

Which songs?

 

"Miss You" and one other song - can't remember which one off the top of my head.

 

Back up to this post. The different tracks are "Miss You" (longer), "Shattered" (shorter) and "Beast of Burden" (longer). I don't know that the Some Girls is that collectible, unless that means you can get for $1 instead of the usual 25 cents.

 

I have the Ringo 8-track with the long version of "Six O'Clock." Probably not worth big bucks, but it's a cool little variation to have.

 

I remember Eagles Hotel California on 8 track. Fade out early Hotel California, New Kid in Town, The Last Resort. Fade up late in to Pretty Maids All In a Row, then repeat Wasted Time reprise so everything fits on each section perfectly.

Hotel California, Life in the Fast Lane
New Kid In Town, Wasted Time, Wasted Time (reprise)
Wasted Time (reprise) (again), Victim of Love, Try And Love Again
Pretty Maids All In A Row, The Last Resort

used to bug when I was used to the fades from the LP!

 

What about Out of the Blue on 8-track? Didn't that have a weird overlap of fades to The Whale and Night in the City between track changes. Managed to keep the suite intact (which was side three on the lp) = Standin' In The Rain, Big Wheels, Summer and Lightning, Mr. Blue Sky. Each of the four sections were around 18 minutes or so!

 

"Night In the City" fades out on program 2, then starts from the beginning again on program 3.

Laugh at the prices - $1 instead of .25 cents - then look at the prices some of the Quads sell for. I just got the Quad 8 track set of Chicago II from eBay for barely under $50. That was a very good price, seriously. Outer box/slipcase in really nice shape, with both tapes still sealed and pristine. I haven't opened them yet, but will.

 

Hi,

About Broadcast carts, I can tell you some real war stories! One day corporate came in from Utah at the combo stations I worked for. The AM was live and the FM automated. We had a Gates automation system with several IGM Instacart machines and 4 open reel transports. If there was static electricity, the carousel would burp out carts at your head level. We called it the Gatling gun. When this happened, the automation would freak. One day, the big boss came in and poked his head in the automation room. I yelled Duck, he didn't, and our big boss got 36 carts to the head. He had to have 3 stitches to his head. My chief engineer had to take him to the hospital. They kept him overnight due to a concussion. Beaned by carts!

Later on, we upgraded (debatable) to a Harris automation system which had the same 4 open reel machine and a cart wall. The cart wall occasionally misfired on playback and chopped the heads off of carts. I as the poor assistant engineer/operator grunt had to redub all 50 something carts. During the local mayoral election, this system loved to eat campaign carts a lot. I must have redubbed those campaign ads 30 or more times. I was 11-12 years old then. Talk about radio then for sure! I repaired this stuff, often baby-sat it, and ran the AM live show on Saturday. All while getting coffee for the staff, answering the telephones, spinning oldies on vinyl and running spots and making sure Bill, the chief engineer had assistance when he needed it. I loved it! Ah, to be 11 again and your new First Phone on the wall and when your special ed class came in, you were in authority!

 

One poor sap DJ I worked with got fired over his chronic habit of flinging carts when he got frustrated at his inability to cut a spot in a short amount of takes. One day, a cart came flying out of the production room, and missed the boss's noggin by an inch or two. The guy was gone within a week...

 

Reechie and Kent (and any other radio guys)....

You guys ever have to do any cart REWINDING--in other words, actually winding a cart from scratch from a big bulk reel of lubed tape?

I actually learned the task back around 1992, only as "something to learn" never thinking that the skill would come in handy. A few years later, at another radio station, I was exploited when the owner learned that I knew how to wind carts. He figured he could save money by buying the raw materials and having me go to town with an old Spotmaster rewinding machine.

Yep...them was the days!

 

Hi Ordway1440,

Yes, I had to rewind carts and reload carts a lot. We used Gates Criterion machines for the AM side and they were Stereo. We used Fidelipac's top of the line tape. We later switched to ScotchCarts.

 

I remember a Black Sabbath tape where Children of the Grave was cut off mid song. I can almost still hear it!

I don't think anyone misses that format.

 

My dad had a copy of "Elvis Country (I'm 10,000 Years Old)" on 8-track. Between the song that kept popping up between the regular songs and the fade outs for the track changes - it was just a complete MESS. I actually remember us both laughing at how ridiculous it was.

 

CBS/Columbia's solution to the problem of programming involved doubling up on one song to get even program lengths which is what they did on Escape and Departure (I have them). That's why you hear that solo the second time without interruption.

For Barry's info I have quite a few Atlantic/Wea 8 tracks and the long gap solution is on Yes Going For The One (at least in the UK).

 

Even worse was that MCA apparently used 8-track masters for their cassettes up until about 1990. So Free Bird--which fell between tracks 2 and 3 on the 8-track---was split up between cassette sides!

 

To this day I can't hear Foreigner's "Cold As Ice" without expecting the track to fade out at the end of the guitar solo.

Same with Heart's "Crazy on You"