80 Min CDR Issue!! Please Help...

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by stereoguy, Dec 5, 2019.

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  1. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Walgreens on 11 US HWY 64 E, Verbatim CDR Spindle Music 96155 , 2-5 in stock. 40x speed though, as was the fashion 15 years ago. The maximum speed is not like CD-RW, though, where the speed has several different technologies that must be specifically supported; it is likely your burner just has firmware that doesn't recognize the manufacturer ID and burn strategy of later discs.
     
  2. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Does it actually say in the RED BOOK specs 79:59? So what now, our company and MFSL put out compact disks that weren't really compact disks?
     
  3. BruceS

    BruceS El Sirviente del Gato

    Location:
    Reading, MA US
    Right. There was a recent discussion here about CDs > 80. Some of us have encountered them on occasion—but they are not Red Book. As for how to create such a CD—that'd be good for the OP to know. I think that's what he needs.
     
  4. BruceS

    BruceS El Sirviente del Gato

    Location:
    Reading, MA US
  5. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Is this a veiled insult? Well, it's only accurate in that I've probably forgotten more about CD-R that most will know, like my multivariate calculus skills. The disc info is a blank I just stuck in my drive. I've got a copy of the real redbook on my hard drive.


    You don't "overburn" a real CD, because there is no pregroove on a blank that dictates what can be done. The foundry can adjust the groove spacing as needed, up to the point where CD players start to have read problems at the max tolerance of redbook, and up to the maximum 90 minutes TOC that indicates lead-in.

    Unlike a hard drive but similar to a record, a CD just has one continuous spiral groove. That groove is already cut on a blank CD-R.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
    john morris likes this.
  6. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I burn my CD-Rs using MediaMonkey and the slowest speed it allows is 10x. I use CD-Rs that can handle speeds of up to 52x and I've not had a problem burning them at 10x.
     
  7. BruceS

    BruceS El Sirviente del Gato

    Location:
    Reading, MA US
    If you think Red Book is a big PITA, just be thankful you've never had to deal with Rock Ridge, over on the POSIX side of things.
     
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  8. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    10x is o.k I guess. Some say it will effect the sound. Over the years we received many demo CDS and many sound horrific. Most were burned at 32x speed and above. But our rule to clients is no burnt CD more than 8 x speed.

    I am sure some will and copy/paste some bit from the web proving how burning speed makes no differnce in sound quality with the exception of pops and clicks. In my 18 years at Uncle Jack's I have heard a many a 16× speed disks. And they all were harsh and nasty. When we ask for a reburn at no more than 8x the new disk always sounded better.
     
  9. BruceS

    BruceS El Sirviente del Gato

    Location:
    Reading, MA US
    This very topic (overburning) was discussed here in...2009! How little things change.....sort of...
    CD-R Overburn
     
  10. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    No! Jesus. I hate the passive aggressive nonsense. I really meant other members. I was asking all the questions because I had the feeling you knew.

    Then why do they call it overburn when clearly that is not what is happening?
     
  11. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Interesting. Yea, cool...Not here in 2009. And that is almost 11 years ago. Thanks for the info.
     
  12. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Just to confirm: TOC means table of contents?
    It is put on when you finalize a disk. Unless you burn one track at a time.
     
  13. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    If this is the case then how come with a few exceptions they aren't 85 and 90 minute disks popping up all over the place? The guy at the plant said a home burnt CDs are different. Or made differently. Surely as you say groove spacing is groove spacing.
     
  14. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Windham Records claim they put out an in house compilation compact disks that were 100 minutes long. It is end the 2009 overburn thread. How can this be possible? Isn't this 10 mins past what is possible? I kept hearing about these 90 minute blanks. I work in the business. Sorry, never saw one..We got all kinds of cheap crappy blanks but I never saw a 90 minute CD-R.
     
  15. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Yes but my worry is that if it the over 80 min disk does not meet the requirements of a RED BOOK CD (and I checked. It is exactly 79.8 minutes) then he may have trouble playing the disk on other players. Especially older ones.
     
  16. JohnO

    JohnO Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    If XP CD Burner is putting the standard 2 seconds gap between tracks, with 29 tracks you could set that to 0 seconds or 0.1 seconds or something to get it under 79:59.
     
    tin ears likes this.
  17. Deano6

    Deano6 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Plymouth, NC, USA
    No. These are regular silver discs. I need the ones with the blue/green dye on the burn side. Sony were the last ones I bought. But now they are impossible to find.
     
  18. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    You don't "finalize" or close a true audio disc. When you burn disc-at-once, the laser starts at the center, and doesn't turn off until the end.

    The table-of-contents is located in the approximately two minutes of lead-in, and repeated several times, so it would be written first.

    Incremental data discs, on non-erasable discs, use multi-session techniques to add or delete data and write a new data TOC into a new session, making it possible to continue to add more data to a disc (until there is no more room for changes). Finalization makes them generally readable in all CD-ROM drives. Audio-CD can also have multisession (a second session your computer can read, with MP3s etc, or which Sony can use to install malware), but only the first session can be compatible CD audio.

    If you really want to be a disc master, I suggest you look into writing CUE sheets + single WAV file for the complete disc audio (and supporting burn software), where you fine-tune tracks and index points, and create the CD-Text data just as you want it to appear. That's especially how you'd make discs with no breaks between the tracks, such as a concert recording or DJ mix.

    Any audio disc longer than 74 minutes is technically violating redbook, as redbook specifies the pitch between adjacent grooves. The smaller-than-spec groove pitch is how 80 minute blanks are made, and how stamped discs over 74 minutes are created. Successfully overburning on CD-R into the manufacturer's lead-out reservation just creates a slight chance that a traditional disc player will not be happy being asked to play audio so close to the edge.

    (PS you can burn audio at 40x+ on a good drive with no negative effects. The resulting disc's audio can be analyzed by checksum, and scanned for C1 and C2 errors and quality, much as one can also analyze a disc if they think a pressing plant's product sounds different than the CD-R that was sent to them.)
     
  19. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Yes. You can burn more than the supported amount. That is called "overburning". The reason why it works is each disc's absolute maximum amount of data/music that can be burned onto it will vary. Manufacturers need to adhere to the limits of the package so if it states 80 minutes as being the max, they'll ensure the disc is identified as 80 min even though burning 83 might be possible. Or 82. Or 84. You get the point.

    Any application with the ability to overburn will grant you the ability to burn the CD even if you're over the supposed storage limit. However, there is always a possibility that the amount of music you wish to overburn will be more than the max capacity of that specific disc. In such a case, it won't complete successfully but you can try a 2nd disc and that might work. Again, all depends on each disc.

    Of course, you can always just get a disc that'll advertise more than 80 min and you should be good but for your purposes and without the need to spend more money, simply use any burning application with overburning capabilities and see whether you're successful at burning that CD.
     
  20. nick99nack

    nick99nack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Spotswood, NJ
    Like many others have said here, it is possible with many CD burning applications using overburn, but you run the risk of compatibility issues. The 80min CD-R discs already have some compatibility issues with some players. I buy the standard 74-min/650MB ones for music, 80min/700MB ones for data storage.
     
  21. stereoguy

    stereoguy Its Gotta Be True Stereo! Thread Starter

    Location:
    NYC



    Strat,

    Thank you very much. Thats really helpful. I will see if I can find a Freeware program that will overburn.
    Many thanks. Stereoguy
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  22. BruceS

    BruceS El Sirviente del Gato

    Location:
    Reading, MA US
    I wasn't either. Just something that came up near the top when I searched. Thanks for the "continuous spiral groove" info. I had no idea that was the case. At this point, how much will fit on a CD or any other medium isn't too much of a concern to me, but it can't hurt to know more of the technical details. I still somehow have 3 standalone CD recorders. Their main use was to assist in getting music transferred from various digital and analog media onto CD-RW and then into iTunes. Mainly done as a project, with some odd one-offs popping up now and then.
     
  23. Solitaire1

    Solitaire1 Carpenters Fan

    I think a factor is that I burn my CDs using a DVD burner. That might allow me to reliably burn at a faster rate, though I make it as slow as possible.
     
    john morris likes this.
  24. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Nevertheless the 2009 thread was interesting.
     
  25. pinktree1

    pinktree1 Forum Resident

    VERBATIM VERBATIM 43428 CD-R Rohlinge - MediaMarkt

    I use these for more than 82 minutes with Nero Burning ROM overburn.
    Up to 82 minutes, Nero Burning ROM has a short lead-out, that gives place for additional 2 minutes on a 700MB-blanc.
     
    john morris likes this.
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