96kHzfs

Sirs,


I currently own a Kenwood DVF-R9050 DVD player and Kenwood KRF-X7775D receiver. My problem is no matter what I do I cannot get the 96kHz fs light on the receiver to come on. I have several different DVD audio disks that are recorded using the 96kHz fs sampling rate none of which activate the light.
I have connected the 6CH OUTPUT of the DVD player to the 6CH INPUT on the receiver, and also hooked the Digital Coax out of the DVD player to the DVD digital Coax input of the receiver and the optical digital out of the DVD player is hooked up to the CD optical input of the receiver.

Is the light supposed to come on when using the DVD/6CH ANALOG.

Is the light supposed to come on when using the DVD Digital

Is the light supposed to come on when using the CD Digital

On another subject, is it better to play all of these sources through the 6-Channel ANALOG outputs, Including Dolby digital movies.

Thanks,
Frank

 

Hi Frank - welcome to the forum

By defaut your player has the "Digital Audio PCM Down Conversion" option set to on - this would need switching off (Page 54 of the English language manual ) Under Sound settings.

not sure if that would be the cause of the light not glowing but maybe

All the best - Andrew

 

As Ken mentions, the copy protection scheme is at work here. Newer DVD players (DVD-A and DVD-V) should be able to pass the 96 kHz stream just by flipping a switch or changing a setting in the Setup Menu, unless that process is prohibited by the copy protection. Even my old Pioneer DVL 919 DVD/LD combi player can output (but not playback in the internal D/A as far as I know) the 96 kHz stream to an external DAC.

If you want to hear recordings from the 24-bit 96 kHz signal, try a Classic Records DAD (DVD-Video Audio Disk) or a Chesky DAD. Those are the only two companies that I am aware of that will allow one to access the 96/24 output stream to an outboard DAC. As far as I am aware, the Classic Recs are stereo only and the Chesky's are both stereo and multichannel. If that is not correct, please feel free to let us know.

If you have a DVD-Audio or a DVD-Video player with onboard DD or DTS, it will (or it should) use the data stream with the highest resolution by default. Some of the newer DVD-V players claim 192/24 playback, although I am skeptical if this an internal upsampling technique of the 48 kHz and 96 kHz streams, rather than accessing the 192/24 data stream. I have a Toshiba portable DVD-V player that claims to playback the 192/24 stream; however after much listening, I am unconvinced.

BTW, there is a world of difference between the 16-bit 48 kHz stream output of copy protected hardware and the 24-bit 96 kHz stream or even the 24-bit 48 kHz downsampled stream to my ears. The higher bit recordings (20- and 24-bit) seem to possess better sound than the 16-bit. The only description I can use here is the higher bit recordings sound more continuous or "there". The higher bit recordings need to be heard to be appreciated.

 

Welcome, Frank! Jump right in, the water's fine...

Try this: for now, just keep your 6-channel inputs connected; disconnect the others(but not, of course, the video line). And make sure you hit the 6-channel mode on your receiver(when I first hooked up, I had it set for DVD: didn't hear a thing. Soon found out I wouldn't).

Get back to us, quick: you're missing great sound!

ED

 

The analogue inputs would not trigger any 96khz light or 'response' because it is an analogue signal already decoded at the source - the DVD player itself. The digital inputs would also not see a 96khz signal from a DVD-A as the 'Advanced Resolution' sound is available only through the analogue outputs. As far as I know, the digital output from DVD-A's is only 48khz 2-channel Dolby Digital. The light would not come on when playing a CD using the digital inputs as CD's are only 44.1khz.

As for which might sound better, the analogue inputs or the digital, when playing back CD's or DVD video discs, that all depends on whether you think the decoding sounds better on your DVD player, or whether you think your receiver decodes the sound better. Try it both ways and see how you like it.

I hope I've answered at least some of your questions.

 

Re: Re: 96kHzfs

Not too sure about that myself GoldenBoy - there is also the case of DVD-V with a 96Khz audio track DAD - the manual for Franks DVD player specifically mentions 96KHz output - the two exceptions being the downsample function that the player includes (and which is the default so action must be taken to get a 96KHz signal out) and where the Disc has CSS encoding which will force the lower sample output.

All the best - Andrew

 

Sure, all DVD-V's as far as I know are capable of 96khz, but as far as I know, the 96khz sampling rate on DVD-A's is classified as 'Advanced Resolution' and therefore only available through the analogue outs. Of course, I could be wrong. If he is not getting 96khz on DVD-V's or DAD's (which are basically just DVD-V's without video) then there must be a problem somewhere, either on the player or the receiver.

 

Please forgive my ignorance, but are you saying that the 24/96 on these DVD-A's is or is not available through the digital outs?

 

Frank, while our resident techies debate the issue of what's the story with your player, I'll tackle another of your questions, to wit:

The first question is: does your DVD-A player have Bass Management? This has been a major complaint of the high-end magazine critics: most players don't. What this means is that, when you play hi-rez music through 6-channel mode, the bass signals aren't being properly routed to your five main speakers, thus forcing you to adjust the subwoofer to compensate, resulting in not quite so natural a sound as you should be getting. If your player does have Bass Management built in, that's great! You get true 5.1 playback in full frequency range(provided you have the speakers to handle this).
As for playing ALL sources through 6-channel? If you have Bass Management, no reason why you shouldn't. If you don't, it's best to let DD 5.1 and DTS default to their respective modes on your receiver. I A/B'd this, and the bass comes back to the other speakers in those modes, but you can hear the reduction when back to 6-channel(in other words, my player doesn't have BM). The nice thing then, even without bass management built into the player, the bass IS being managed through those inputs. I play all regular DTS films and audio through the DTS mode, and all DD through the regular 5.1 mode. In truth you can use the 6-channel mode to listen to anything from the player, of course, but why would you? Regular stereo is best heard through the stereo jacks for the DVD(or CD)modes. At least that's been my experience.

ED

 

The introduction of HDMI digital interconnects will allow future receivers to decode all modes of digital audio output from SACD and DVD-A players. We are still several months away from a final standard and then it can take up to 18 months for the hardware to hit the street. Till then copy protection rules out lives and prevents full use of our digital interconnects.

Richard.

 

Well, that's what I thought you were saying, sort of. As far as I know, when concerning DVD-A, there is no down conversion taking place on the digital outs because DVD-A's contain and play back 2-channel Dolby Digital source material through the digital outs. I'm not sure exactly what the quality is, but I think it is 24/48 or something of that nature. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

My point was that the actual source on the DVD-A is 24/48 therefore no down conversion is taking place. As I stated before, all DVD-A's, as far as I know, contain a 24/48 2-channel DVD_V compatible Dolby Digital version of the material therein and that is what is played back through the digital outs. All other 'Advanced Resolution' material is played back only through the analog outs without any down conversion.

 

I see what you're saying. I do realize that 24/96 is supported by DVD-V, I had just always assumed, perhaps wrongfully so, that 24/96 on DVD-A's was classified strictly as 'Advanced Resolution' and therefore not available through the digital outs. I see now that perhaps my confusion arose from the fact that the 24/96 specification for DVD-A 'Advanced Resolution' is uncompressed and available only through the analogue outs, whereas any 24/96 content available on the DVD-V portion of a disc that would be available through the digital outs is in the compressed Dolby Digital format.

 

I see. I have never, however, come across a DVD-A that offers 24/96 through the digital outs that is not Dolby Digital format, but then I only own 5 DVD-A's (peanuts compared to how many SACD's I have). All of them offer 'Advanced Resolution' 5.1, 'Advanced Resolution' Stereo (24/192) and DVD-V compatible Dolby Digital.

As for the so called 'flexibility', I consider it a flaw AND a bug.

 

Thanks for all the feedback. I gusess I should have been checking my post more often.

First to answer aashton's comment - I had already turned off the PCM downconversion

Ed Bishop - I may try that at a later date but it is a little difficult getting into my cabinet to swap wires - wife vs functionality--wife wins

In response to your second comment. The player does not have bass management but I do not have a subwoofer - yet!

goldenboy - from your explaination the 96hz fs on the reciever would never come on. I thought that the light should illuminate when passing through 96hz fs from the DVD-A player. The DVD-A player 96k fs does light up it also has a 192k fs light but I don't think I have any DVD-As recorded with that sampling rate. Most of my discs contain "advanced resoution surround and/or stereo". It is my understanding that these are recorded with the higher sampling rates. I still get back to my question if the light works on the DVD player why doesn't it work on my Reciever. Am I listening to the best recording I can from my discs

Thanks,
Frank

 

If in fact your DVD player is playing a 96khz source, then the light on your receiver should be triggered unless it is being downcoverted somewhere in the chain. There could also be the very slight chance that the light on your receiver doesn't work. I would suggest to you to thoroughly read through the manuals for both units to make sure that you are doing everything correctly and then if you are still having problems, maybe you should consider contacting the manufacturers.

 

I have been over and over the manuals. If it's a burnt out light, I've wasted a lot of time I will never be able to get back - this is killing me Why is this light on the reciever.

Frank

 

Have you contacted the maufacturer's customer service?