A few reviews I made and I thought you guys might be interested.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by ErinH, Jul 10, 2020.

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  1. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Erin,
    I was heavily influenced by and greatly appreciated your contributions on DIYMA.com during the aftermarket build on my car. Nine years later and I think it's finished (almost :). I remember you installing the first KEF uni-Q driver in your doors, arguing with Scott B. of H.A.T. and providing great ideas about tuning active systems with DSP / Time alignment.
    After plunging into the mobile audio rabbit hole I turned to my home theater system. Another rabbit hole -? NO. More like a stargate portal. "HT" evolved into "2-channel (or 2.2) Audiophile" and then it all began- and I blame this site !
    The point is that large parts of the audiophile world are much different than the HT and Mobile Audio worlds and often with much different audio priorities. There isn't a better site for that than this one to help understand what those priorities are.
    Keep following along and you might be surprised at what happens. Peace.

    -Tony
     
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  2. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    Ahh... the good old days. Arguing with manufacturers who tell me how to measure things that they don't know how to do themselves. I still do that from time to time today. I am glad those old discussions were useful for you. Great to see people in other places outside of DIYMA. :)



    For sure. I have referenced this site countless times when looking for "best" versions of an album and entered many discussions about some of them. This place is a wealth of information not just on music but how it is made.
     
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  3. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    I took some of ya'lls feedback and applied it. I tried my best to make this video short but was only able to trim about 5 minutes off my previous videos. But, given this speaker's history, and the 20+ hours of testing I have in it, there was a LOT to cover here. So I can live with it.

     
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  4. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    thanks for the review! seems like you tried to make this speaker work but in the end the shortcomings of the design were too much to overcome.
    it is no wonder that the accuracy and tonality were off when a single 4-1/2" driver is the only directly radiating source for the entire frequency spectrum.
    since the sound stage is so impressive it seems like there is potential value there. maybe a less radical direct / reflecting design could be the answer. a design that has conventional full spectrum multiple driver configuration for the direct sound and then optimize the driver configuration, output level and frequency bandwidth for the reflected sound to enhance the sound stage.
    the single driver doing all the direct work is a difficult proposition. even the best single driver speakers have limitations and compromises and many use EQ- see Voxativ Audio speakers for an example. While they can sound impressive with limited range vocals they struggle with complex demanding material that extends to the limits of the upper and lower ends.
    One plus for the 901 is the non-parallel enclosure that helps eliminate standing waves. Although probably not on purpose.
     
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  5. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I never liked the 901 - BUT - I had the chance to hear them in a large bar/club in South Korea and what is great about them is that two of them at opposite end of the bar - they filled the large space such that wherever you were walking you had a fairly consistent sound everywhere. A direct radiating speaker likely would not - you'd have that loudness wherever the speaker was but far less coverage. So if you ever decide to open a bar/restaurant where accuracy really isn't critical - but want something that won't blare like a lot of horns - the Bose 901 could be a worthwhile solution.

    I remember folks saying that to get the best sound from them they should be suspended (hung from the ceiling like a potted plant). i never heard them like that myself however.

    I enjoyed the review and it was fun to see these old Bose speakers covered. The last Bose review I read was of the acoustimass system and that was ripped because of a massive gap between the cubes and the sub (which is charitably called a sub).
     
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  6. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    My roots are in car audio. I got started testing years back by testing car audio products. I don't know if any of you here are interested in this kind of stuff but I thought I'd share my two recent car audio woofer reviews. I tried my best to keep in mind the feedback I have gotten here and I think things are getting better... and I'm at least starting to feel more comfortable talking to a camera (even though it's still weird).


     
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  7. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    ... and another one...


     
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  8. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    Here’s my latest. A $90/pair bookshelf that performs much worse than the previous $90/pair speakers I reviewed last month.

     
  9. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL


    The market is flooded with $100-$200 10-inch powered subwoofers.

    So, how do you separate the good from the bad… the high value products from the others… and how do you make the right purchase decision to get you the product you need while not over-spending? To tackle those questions, I ordered 5 of the more popular budget 10-inch powered subwoofers from Amazon and conducted my own shootout. This video explores these options and aims to provide you with some knowledge – using science, not fluff – to help your purchase decisions.


    Results sheet can be found via my Google Sheet: CEA-2010 Subwoofer Testing

    Some information regarding the use of multiple subwoofers to provide a smoother in-room response: Multiple Subwoofers: Benefits & Setup - HomeTheaterHifi.com


    Because I know I will be asked: Before I began testing, I reached out to both Monoprice and Parts-Express about obtaining review samples that I would send back but I did not get a response. If you have a subwoofer you would like me to test, track me down and let’s see if we can work something out.
     
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  10. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL



    The Revel F226Be is a top flight speaker: accurate, dynamic and fantastic looks. Perfect for all situations from hi-fi listening in the living room to watching movies in your home theater.

    Now, this is a long video. I know. I edited it down as best I could. But this is a complex speaker and takes time to discuss the performance of it both subjectively and objectively (in an appreciable way). So, grab a snack and kick back while I discuss the performance of my favorite speaker to date.

    This is a review I am proud of. It took a long, long time to get the measurements completed and analyzed. I hope those of you who care to watch it get as much out of it as I have put in to it.
     
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  11. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    very well done review and you presented an iron clad case for the technical merits of this impressive speaker. the measurements really are incredible, the review makes me want to buy them on the spot.
    one area i look to for measurements is an accelerometer output of a cumulative spectral decay plot. very important for me to understand the enclosure resonance contribution to the sound which can be significant enough to give voices a nasal, colored presentation. i bet these do an excellent job controlling audible enclosure resonance.
    one area i find fault with the method of objective reviews is they often fail to capture the essence of the sound of a speaker. in other words walk into the room when they are playing and what is the first thing that grabs your attention. in this case it seems as if neutrality is their essence.
    when i listened to these speakers last year the first thing i heard was different. these speakers sound very different than most (to my ears). and it was not good. my experience with most speakers using ceramic coated drivers is that while they sound amazingly detailed, this comes with a price for those that pick up on it. that price is an occasional trailing slightly ringing decay artifact. a midrange frequency crispness, very difficult to describe but distinctive and noticeable and not natural. i heard it on every ceramic driver based speaker i have heard except Marten speakers, which somehow minimized this effect.
    as a result of that audition i declined to purchase the revels.
    so for me a review that focuses too much on the objectives (which are important!) sometimes fails to capture the essence of the product. this is a fault of the method, not the reviewer, of which you do an excellent job.
     
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  12. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    Thanks for the feedback. Really appreciated. And I appreciate your perspective as well.

    I forgot to mention something important about my process in the video (but did mention it in the written review) which is: I always listen before I measure. I listen in different rooms and with all sorts of music. Over multiple days. Then I begin the measuring process. I do this to keep me from being influenced by what the data shows. And, so far, my subjective has lined up very well with what I measure.

    With that said, I never heard a sound like you're describing from the mids. And, looking back over the data, there is no evidence of ringing. A CSD plot isn't needed. Off-axis data shows this very well. I don't like CSD data because of the steps used to create it; the noise floor cutoff, the gating (necessary for everyone who doesn't use an anechoic chamber or the setup I use), and the 'slices' used. It's a bit subjective and never matches up to another's measurements. The off-axis data will show these artifacts easily. That's why I don't bother with CSD. I also measure in the nearfield to help identify driver-borne problems. The data I provide shows no ringing from the midrange that would characterize what you hear. However, the data does show a mild Q resonance around 4kHz which is attributed to the horn-loading nature of the waveguide (as evidenced in part by the impedance bump in that region). I wonder if this is what you heard.

    The neutrality of this speaker is quite nice, certainly. But what caught my attention first was the low level dynamics. That is a welcome feature compared to all the other speakers I review that just don't have this characteristic. :)

    And, yes, I am objective heavy. No, I don't think you mean that in a bad way, either. But, frankly, it'll appear that way relative to everyone else's reviews because it seems the whole of YouTube reviews is centered solely on someone telling you what they heard so they can keep their influencer status. IMO, 98% of YT reviewers are salesmen at this point. Which is why I like data. I like the accountability of data. If I say I heard X but the data doesn't show that then I either have to dig to understand why and at least offer some rationale or risk looking like a shill. Trust me, if I went easy on the measurements my life would be a lot simpler and I would be getting a lot more stuff from manufacturers. :)


    Anyway... I hope my post does not come off as defensive. I tried hard to word it in a way that isn't. But, it is worth me sharing my perspective and experience and maybe that will help both of us understand where the other is coming from. Thanks again for watching and the feedback. It's appreciated!

    - Erin
     
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  13. IRG

    IRG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Nice review Erin, I watched it all too. Long, but never boring and very informative. I find a video like this that is technical in nature, works a lot better with your various charts and such, then it does if I'm reading it in say Stereophile, where I usually gloss over the technical side of stuff pretty quickly. This drew me in more, and made more sense to me. Well done.
     
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  14. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Excellent review. I suppose if you're going to give detailed analysis on both technical, and subjective aspects of a speaker, it's going to be long.

    I owned the F206 for about a year and found them to be extremely clean sounding speakers. Other than being a tad light in the bass, hard to criticize. At the time I was listening to them I also owned the Revel M22 speakers, and I'd swear the smaller M22s put out more bass. I'm sure they had a 100hz bump to get it, but they were more pleasing to me.

    Wish I had owned a decent sub when I had the F206. Probably would've made a big difference.
     
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  15. vavan

    vavan Active Member

    Location:
    russia, kazan
    what made you switch?
     
  16. timind

    timind phorum rezident

    Long story, short:

    After years of listening to monitors in a small room we moved into a place with a large room for my system. I decided to get some big speakers for a big sound. I tried several large speakers, including the Revels. Although they did sound good, they didn't have the really big sound I hoped for. In the end, I realized I prefer the more intimate sound I get with monitor speakers. Add a good sub to the monitors and you have the big sound, but don't lose the intimacy.
     
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  17. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    i appreciate that you are not reviewing to sell and completely trust your opinions. definitely stay that way!
    possibly my experiences at audio shows have led me to easily hear the distinctive sound of ceramic drivers and also possibly it is the slight resonance at 4khz you measured.
    it did seem to be in the lower treble region.
    attending the axpona audio show five years running it is a great way to hear nearly every type of speaker and system and understand their distinctive qualities at a glance.
    you walk into a room and bam- panel speakers transparency, next room horn speakers livliness, next room large box monitors with dome midranges and wandering image coherence, next room ceramic drivers and that airy ringing echo for lack of a better description.
    attend a show if you ever get the chance. peace.
     
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  18. vavan

    vavan Active Member

    Location:
    russia, kazan
    fwiw couple of times I encountered people reporting BE revel speakers sounded harsh, see for example Revel Owners Thread
     
  19. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    I really would love to.

    I view myself as more of an outsider in the realm of home audio so I never thought I would "fit in" with the show scene. Plus, the cost. But, I hope to change that in the future.
     
  20. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    I posted this one last night. $99 Monoprice 12-inch subwoofer. Not the greatest thing in the world, but for $99 it does have some performance worth noting.

     
  21. IRG

    IRG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ithaca, NY
    Don't sell yourself short. Everyone is probably an outsider at some point. You can make it your thing. Your technical grasp, and ability to explain it seems like your strength. I noticed you occasionally want to downplay or criticize your lack of using superfluous adjectives, as if that's a bad thing. It can certainly get overbearing from some reviewers. I watched a recent video from Steve Guttenberg, who explained what all of the "key adjectives" mean in audiophilia. I watched it, and it actually helped me better understand what some reviewers mean by their use of similar terminology. Once the vocab is understood by all, the hobby makes more sense, and what you do, is take some of the technical terminology and graphs and such, and make more sense of that too. Brevity is still preferred by me, 1/2 hour videos are long, but in this case it worked. And I know it's a lot of work condensing a lot of information into a tight time frame - it's a real art. Keep at it.
     
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  22. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
    A couple more...

    Slowly feel like I'm getting better with these in terms of quality.

     
  23. ErinH

    ErinH Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Decatur, AL
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