A new Thorens era coming?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by LakeMountain, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Horrible shape though (The 309), the classic rectangular TT look has never being bettered.
     
    Pavol Stromcek likes this.
  2. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    The classic rectangular TT look is just awful, horrible and ugly.
    The assymetric design of the TD309 reduces standing waves so it has less problems with resonances. Plus it looks beautiful.
     
  3. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    This is all totally subjective, of course, but I think the TD 309 is one of the most hideous looking turntables I've ever seen.
     
  4. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Well I wouldn’t call it hideous. Not attractive to me. But that award goes to a few other tables. Perhaps a thread of unappealing looking turntables is due.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
    Pavol Stromcek likes this.
  5. Davey

    Davey NP: Broadcast ~ The Future Crayon

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I always thought the triangular design looked good, but certainly a bold and risky choice, and obviously polarizing. They went both ways on the lesser model below it, using a rectangular plinth on the 206, and the same triangular one on the 209.

    The TD 309 was a very innovative table in several areas, too bad it really never quite found a place in the market, it seemed to have a problem selling even when heavily discounted. Probably due mainly to the look, but it's kind of stealthy in that much of the innovation is beneath the skin and hidden from the buyer, so the value seems lower than it really is when compared to similarly priced decks.
     
  6. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    You are now challenging the fact that Perpetuum Ebner claims they are still made in the Black Forest....every part sept the cover. Even the motor is German.

    "
    Seventy years ago, the German Perpetuum Ebner was living in glory days, as the largest turntable manufacturer in the world, with a staff of 1,500!

    It was founded in 1911 and was the pride of the Germans for many years, together with the "sister" company Dual, with which it merged in the early seventies and in fact was absorbed by it, ending in 1973 its long-standing presence in the hi- fi.
    Until in 2014 her pulse started beating again, when the company W Audgan Systems of the German Wolfgang Epting gave her the kiss of life. The company's modern facilities are located in the same area that Perpetuum Ebner wrote its history in the last century, in the Black Forest, while the staff is staffed, among others, by former Dual associates.

    In other words, the new Perpetuum Ebner seems to be, symbolically and objectively, a direct descendant of the original company and not just a "we dug up" name and the rest… in China. After all, the impression left by the PE 4040 is extremely similar to the sound philosophy of the top modern Duals, such as the CS600, with perhaps a clearer position of the classic sound and clearly more resolution, body and accuracy throughout the audio range."

    Perpetuum Ebner PE 4040 Review

    The following is what is shown on the front of my PE4040


    [​IMG]

    I also have seen pics of the factory with German workers not Chinese workers.
     
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  7. Davey

    Davey NP: Broadcast ~ The Future Crayon

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    That 4040 of yours has to be one of the bargains of the decade in turntables, too bad more people weren't able to grab one at that time, what a price for such a great table! I guess it got picked by some magazine reader poll as the best table, so they have a new Gold version out with Ortofon Cadenza Bronze and some "golden" cables, all for a measly 4500 euros!

    Actually, that is probably a pretty good price, with a $2000+ cartridge, if you could get it without VAT and a good price on shipping, hmm.....


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  8. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Yes sir! Mine is just like that, but I don't have polished platter mine is powder coated. I do wonder if i could order the polished patter tho.
     
  9. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I'm sure there are uglier turntables than the TD 309 out there; I just can't think of any at the moment. That is a good idea for a thread.
     
    HiFi Guy 008 likes this.
  10. Davey

    Davey NP: Broadcast ~ The Future Crayon

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Based on what I've seen here, I think we already have enough opportunities to be impolite to each other without starting a new thread to create even more opportunities :)
     
    ddarch, Danilo and VintageVibe like this.
  11. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Sure, I suppose a thread like that could easily devolve into pointless negativity, but it doesn't have to (depending on how the discussion is worded or framed). And besides, we're only talking about turntables, after all. (And not that I would actually start a thread like that; but it could be a fun way to see some unconventional or odd-looking turntables.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  12. VintageVibe

    VintageVibe Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Joisey
    So, within the context of this discussion, feel free to frame the comment. I mean it's just a turntable.
     
  13. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Not sure what your point is, but I started by noting that this is "all totally subjective," meaning of course that it is my own opinion and nothing more. And since "it's just a turntable," there's no need to take other people's opinions of its looks personally or get bent out of shape.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  14. I think the 309 is beautiful. It just didn’t look like a typical Thorens—although with all the changes in ownership, I don’t think Thorens is any more than a brand name, and hasn’t been for a few decades. Sort of like what happened to Marantz until it finally ended up with stability as a Japanese brand.
     
  15. dividebytube

    dividebytube Forum Resident

    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI
    I own a TD-309 and like the way it looks - but my house walls have Calder prints ;)

    The 309 is a seriously good turntable for the dollars; I paid $1200 - used - for mine with an Ortofon 2M Bronze. So far it's been very reliable and the DC motor (which is adjustable) hasn't needed any tweaking to run exactly at 33 1/3rd. My only wish is for something like the VPI, a screw down record clamp which helped with some records with a slight warp.
     
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  16. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    I watched this video trying to work out how much it’d be and guessed it’d be about £1000-1500.



    The motor seems to be a Hanpin similar to those found in Technics clone DJ decks of the last 20 years. It’s a tried and tested motor, nothing wrong with it but to have it at the heart of a £8000 turntable blows my mind!
     
  17. Pavol Stromcek

    Pavol Stromcek Senior Member

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I love Calder! If Thorens had made the TD-309 an offset or oblong shape, like something from a Calder piece (rather than symmetrical and shaped like a medieval shield or a security guard badge), I'd probably really like it!

    I'm not surprised that the 309 is a great turntable, though. I've heard good things in other threads.
     
  18. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    The 309 could have been marketed as a tie-in with a Marvel comics hero. I was waiting to see them seduce the millenials. Never happened. Wasted opportunity.
     
    Hardcore likes this.
  19. Tim Irvine

    Tim Irvine Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    The 309 does indeed push the borders of design. Imagine it paired with some Double Impacts in the same color!
     
    Hardcore likes this.
  20. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    I wouldn’t call it ugly, more unique. It’s still a really cool retro turntable.
     
  21. VintageVibe

    VintageVibe Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Joisey
    So, this new, very positive HiFi News review for the TD 148a showed up yesterday in my Google news feed. It was an out of the box review with the factory installed Orto Blue.

    Thorens TD 148A Turntable **

    Too bad that he wasn't aware that the TP 95 tonearm has the same capabilities as the TD 1600 / TP 92 combo in terms of its ability to accommodate compatible higher end cartridges such as the TAS 1600 ( AT OC9X per the tnt-audio review) ), or other higher compliance carts up to $2,000 (if you apply the don't spend more on the cart than the tt rule). That means someone looking for an end game, fully automatic deck doesn't have to think about upgrading the arm.

    * I previously identified the TP 95 as a TP 148 tonearm. That info came from Thorens. Gunter Kurten verified it earlier today that the TP 95 is the correct arm.

    ** Honorable mention in there about Slippers PE 4040

    Perhaps a new Thorens era is here?
     
    Slippers-on likes this.
  22. Davey

    Davey NP: Broadcast ~ The Future Crayon

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Strangely ignoring that the TP-92 was first developed for Thorens' own TD 309, and Hi-Fi News awarded the TD 309 "Outstanding Product" in the 2010 review with front page feature :)

    Oh well, The Perpetuum Ebner is a current product, while the TD 309 has been discontinued, so maybe that explains it. PE is also putting the TP 92 on the lower cost 2525 now.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  23. VintageVibe

    VintageVibe Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Joisey
    That will ruffle some feathers for sure!
     
  24. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    The new Thorens is in no way inferior products. After the restart in 00/01, Thorens has released many great products. The 8xx, serie, the 350, 550, the acrylic series, the 203, 206/209, the 9xx and the excellent TD309 that I have and own. It’s in no way inferior to the classic 14x, 16x and 3xx series - offering a cleaner, richer sound with a great tonearm. The new TD1600/1601 are excellent too, but looks too vintage in their external appearance but are fully modern ”under the hood”.
     
  25. Raphael Mabo

    Raphael Mabo Music nerd

    Location:
    Gnesta, Sweden
    The TD402 is built in Taiwan not China.
    No Thorens is built in China. Mr Fremer tested a pre-production ”for photos only” model. It didn’t come from regular production.
     
    E.Baba likes this.

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