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A song that always feels profound to you no matter how often you've heard it?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Price.pittsburgh, Apr 5, 2021.

  1. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    It was a knee jerk in jumping to the intellectually weak "hater" label and relies on continued statements of nonsense.... as proven again right here in this post.... as you say yet again:
    "me imagining there is no freakin Heaven or all countries being one takes deep thinking."
    Imagining that does not take deep thinking. It's so completely, utterly simplistic.... nothing profound whatsoever about that. Heck, it's easy if you try!
    Hell, you don't even have to try. It really takes no thought at all. What takes thought is whether or not that is feasible and whether or not it actually leads to the desired outcome. That takes profound thought.... all of that is absent here.

    If you really have to strain that hard to imagine such a thing, it's no wonder you find this simplistic tripe to be profound.
     
  2. 80steen

    80steen John McClane

    Location:
    West Virginia
    You can imagine anything and say it's not profound. You can imagine you only have one leg instead of two or that I'm really a girl instead of a guy. That's not the point. The song suggests we try something totally out of the ordinary, something that is the polar opposite of everything we've come to know as our reality. Maybe you can give an example of a lyric that is indeed profound. Seriously, no sarcasm. What lyric do you claim to be deep? The OP also mentioned The Times They Are A Changin'. That's a song where Dylan is letting us know what he believes will happen so in that we are imagining it taking place. No different than Imagine. Of course, many of Dylan's lyrics were prophetic but at the time of it's release it still was profound before any of it occurred. Someone said What's Going On. All Marvin Gaye is doing there is stating the obvious of the political climate. Certainly that can't be profound if we already know it. If one says that Dylan and Gaye are dealing with issues of the day, so is Lennon. He's not saying to Imagine based on anything different than Dylan and Gaye are talking about. If things were fine in the world Lennon would never suggest us to imagine anything. That's why I believe you're a hater of Lennon or the over exposed song. You're not attacking other similar examples.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 7:39 PM
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  3. 51IS

    51IS Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    Marathon by Rush
     
  4. 80steen

    80steen John McClane

    Location:
    West Virginia
    Nowhere Man
     
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  5. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    But when you say totally out of the ordinary, there are two problems with that.... everything Lennon says in the song has been tried in multiple utopian societies throughout history, and there are immutable reasons why they have failed. He's just rehashing things that don't work. Second, the imagining is so very weak, simply chucking everything, the good with the bad. So this is not just addressing the issues of the day because it's not really addressing anything.... it's just running away from the issues of the day. Not profound. You see, my statement has nothing to do with whether or not something has been known or done before, it's whether or not it's even being done now. Lennon's song is actually doing less than what's been done before.

    But hey, it touches the heartstrings.

    I think there's very little in the world that is truly profound. There are lots of lyrics which speak to me, but I really hesitate to use the word "profound" with most of them. Neil Peart probably comes closest with something like Entre Nous or Natural Science or the Fear trilogy. Someone mentioned Aqualung, and while I might not choose that particular song, I do think the album as a whole makes a profound statement. Every once in a while, Ray Davies's wry English wit slips into profundity.
     
  6. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    I Don't Remember Loving You...John Conlee
     
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  7. Grayswandir

    Grayswandir Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    Badfinger - Name of the Game gets me every time.

     
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  8. 80steen

    80steen John McClane

    Location:
    West Virginia
    And again, Marvin Gaye's What's Going On is no different in addressing the issues of the day. He says we need to find a way to bring some lovin' here today, while telling us that brothers are dying, mothers are crying, and that war is not the answer. Most then and today believe that song is profound just as they do Imagine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 8:03 PM
  9. MitchFlorida

    MitchFlorida Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida
  10. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    I haven't said one thing either way about What's Going On.
    If most people think Imagine is profound, then most people are far too easily impressed. Nothing can change the fact that no real thought or intellectual depth is present there. No matter how beautiful a sentiment it may be, that doesn't make it profound. In fact, the very deliberate avoidance of anything beyond the most superficial thought makes it anti-profound. I'm not saying it doesn't have meaning. Simple things can be meaningful. That doesn't make them profound.
     
  11. SG47

    SG47 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Gil Scott Heron- Home Is Where the Hatred Is.
     
  12. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    ohio
  13. 80steen

    80steen John McClane

    Location:
    West Virginia
    One of your examples. I mean folks could just as easily poke fun at
    that cliche cosmos rambling that people on weed do.

    We are secrets to each other
    Each one's life a novel
    No-one else has read
    Even joined in bonds of love
    We're linked to one another
    By such slender threads
    We are planets to each other
    Drifting in our orbits
    To a brief eclipse
    Each of us a world apart
    Alone and yet together
    Like two passing ships
    Just between us
    I think it's time for us to recognize
    The differences we sometimes feared to show
    Just between us
    I think it's time for us to realize
    The spaces in between
    Leave room
    For you and I to grow
    We are strangers to each other
    Full of sliding panels
    An illusion show
    Acting well-rehearsed routines
    Or playing from the heart?
    It's hard for one to know

    Is that so different than someone trying to make us view things a different way as

    Imagine there's no heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today...

    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion, too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace...

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will be as one

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world...
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 8:18 PM
  14. 51IS

    51IS Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    My religion is one of the best things in my life if not THE best thing, so imagining a world without it makes me shudder. I’m not sure I could face it. But I don’t object to being asked to imagine how the human condition could be better. That’s never a bad idea. I don’t know if it’s a fair criticism or not to judge a work of art in light of the author’s personal life, but some people are uncomfortable with this song knowing about some sentiments in it that are not in congruence. That matters to some people, not to others. Whether it’s completely successful or not as a work of art, I do agree that the subject matter it attempts to take on IS profound.
     
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  15. 80steen

    80steen John McClane

    Location:
    West Virginia
    Yeah, I'm sure most hear the song and imagine a world without any religion except for their own. One live lyric was even changed recently to And All Religion True. lol. Totally missing John's point about all the blood shed in the name of religions, both in the east and west.
     
  16. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    The difference is that much of what Peart is saying has never crossed most people's minds. Again, not only is Lennon not saying anything new, he's actually saying something LESS than what has already been said (or tried and failed). The other big difference is that Peart's lyric puts a lot more thought, more depth, into the presentation where Lennon's is utterly superficial. Peart also effectively employs a variety of metaphors to provide multiple ways of thinking of the subject matter.

    So this is just way more than trying to get us to think in a new way... and Lennon doesn't even do that because again, much of that had not only been imagined, but also attempted and failed, so again not only is he not profound, he's actually moving backwards!
     
  17. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    Not missing the point of all the harm done by religion at all. That is quite clear and there's no missing it.
    The problem is that doing away with it entirely also does away with the positives, which for many, have been incalculable.

    And I say this as someone who's not at all religious. But Aqualung deals with this far better than this mindlessly simplistic throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater approach.
     
  18. 51IS

    51IS Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    Some people think the world would be worse than it is without religion, some think it would be better. Maybe the reactions and debate are an argument for the song being more profound than one might assume. Me, the lyrics to Entre Nous are much more to my taste than Imagine - but do people passionately defend or criticize Entre Nous to the degree they do Imagine? Just having the debate is worthwhile, I think. Deciding whether to be a theist or not has to be the most critical decision of anyone’s life, doesn’t it? It’s the kind of decision that affects every other decision you make in life. That’s profound, if you ask me.
     
  19. 80steen

    80steen John McClane

    Location:
    West Virginia
    Being nice for the sake of being nice and not because you're supposed to because your religion says so is a point of Imagine.
     
  20. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
  21. 80steen

    80steen John McClane

    Location:
    West Virginia
    I don't think around 1971 the "Christian" west thought all that all that much about there being no religion or that the proud patriots of their countries imagined them not existing. And t most imagining no heaven is down right scary. Maybe you'd be more comfortable with Lennon's Across The Universe lyrics as profound?
     
  22. pocofan

    pocofan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Alabama
    For The Benefit OF Mr Kite. Lennon took a poster and wrote a song based on the poster
     
  23. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    A point I wholeheartedly agree with. But see my last post. Throwing away the whole thing because you don't like some parts of it is part of the simplemindedness of this song that makes it hopelessly un-profound.
     
  24. 51IS

    51IS Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis MO
    Speaking of Rush, I almost said the entire Grace Under Pressure album, but if I had to pick the most moving song on it lyrics-wise, I’d vote for Between The Wheels.

    Far Cry from Snakes and Arrows pushes some of the same buttons in me.

    Mission from Hold Your Fire is another that really moves me.
     
  25. dogilv

    dogilv Forum Resident

    Into the Mystic- Van Morrison

    Galveston- Glen Campbell

    Morning Dew- Grateful Dead
     
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