Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by TeacFan, Aug 17, 2016.
I'm sure Bradley Cooper has a lot to do with the success...I'm a fan. I'd see it just for him...
Just streamed the film and didn't like it at all. My wife loved it though.
Movies have been so dumbed down by Marvel superheroes and the like that a mediocre movie like this is hailed as something good. Hard to say which was worse: the maudlin plot, Cooper’s laughable accent, his even worse guitar playing and singing, Gaga’s “acting” and “singing,” etc. but I nominate the deafening sound mix, which in my local theatre, at least, made me understand just how Cooper’s character’s tinnitus must have felt.
I know everyone has their own tastes in music and such but to insinuate she can't sing? I can't even take that seriously.
She can hit notes in sequence; I don’t find it entertaining or moving.
Well people have hated Lady Gaga from day one and once that is in someone's opinion base it's next to impossible to remove - similar to religion or politics - lots of luck convincing people to change their minds.
So because Gaga began as a pop star (at least to the general public) she was written off as all other pop singers before, during and since. Further if you are comparing Lady Gaga to the operatic elites (which no one should but some do) then pop singers, jazz singers, and contemporary singers tend to fall short.
For any of these discussions to have merit (and you likely won't get one from trollers on audio boards) is to get any of them to state who they regard to be "THE GOOD" popular singers. So then you can try and figure out if what they are saying holds merit - or is indeed just a position based on not liking the person.
Take Michael Jackson - he was the biggest male singing pop star ever but I am just not a fan of his voice - I don't think he is a bad singer and I can see his obvious talent and I even like a few of his songs - but his vocal range I am generally not a fan of. He is a High Tenor - and I suppose I prefer male singers to be lower down the range. Now weirdly I love Tony Lewis who is the lead singer of The Outfield and who is also a High Tenor. So go figure.
Again though if you don't have a frame of reference as to what other singer likes then these discussions don't go anywhere.
Another poster on another board said that Lady Gaga's Bad Romance had no business being in a top 100 all time pop song list (it ranked 6th).
But to know anything about the list is important - for instance the list was based on longevity, how many sales (of course) and how many times the song has been covered and length of time it stayed on the charts etc. It ranked 6th.
And then I checked over her lyrics and lyrics of other songs (perhaps better - paparazzi) and putting my poetry hat on I said well these songs do actually have some merit and are about something that is more than typical of the genre - so from a lyrics standpoint they are at home with the 19 Beatles songs that made the list.
Vocals? Real vocal coaches and other professional singers have gone over LG's abilities and graded her quite highly among her peers. She is a classically trained singer and it would be difficult to argue that she isn't in or at the top of the list of female pop or even jazz singers working today. She is more chameleon like as well as she has demonstrated with performing with Elton John, Metallica, Tony Bennett and covering Julie Andrews.
BUT like my issue with Michael Jackson - Gaga's vocal range sits Mezzo-soprano and lower to alto. Although here Julie Andrews performance was an eye opener for most folks who felt "where the hell did that come from?" and she sounds to me more at ease in the tenor range. So to me it's sort of "which Lady Gaga and which Music genre are we talking - virtually every other artist plays one genre for their entire music career.
Personally I like the fact that she is not afraid to play metal, rock, country, Showtunes, Jazz, pop etc. If you like it sing it. She introduced a LOT of people to jazz doing a duet album with Bennett - and even if the album was uneven - getting young people out of mainstream pop is pretty cool.
This a review of Lady Gaga's vocals as a singer
"Vocal Rating: A
Recommended Listenings: Government Hooker, Speechless, Wonderful, Do What U Want
A properly trained singer with great technique. Her belts are resonant and supported well, reaching up to G5 in early recordings, and up to F#5 in Do What U Want. She is capable of rapid firing high belts, (see the last chorus of Marry the Night). Her low notes are very dark and full, but can also mimic a talking voice. Her head voice can be thick with an operatic weight, or light and airy. The contrast in colors in her tone is impressive though her voice sits naturally with a darker tone.
Distinctive, unique vocal phrasing, that allows for her to communicate an array of emotions. Even though she is capable of singing a melisma, she does not overuse the technique to show her abilities. Great legato lines and respectable staccato ones as well. Ability to hold pitches for extended periods without wavering. Her voice can transcend through multiple genres, including balladry, dance/pop, country, jazz and rock.
Her vibrato and placement are some of her strongest points. Her vibrato is wide, controlled with an operatic quality and is executed excellently. Her placement for her belts is becoming stronger over time, there is less strain on her D5's, Eb5's and E5's.
In her early career starting at D5, her belts were shouty and poorly mixed. She rarely uses her head voice live (at least above E5), and lacks projection in that area. After vocal coaching in 2014/2015, her issue mostly lies with mask placement and occasionally dropping support above C5."
Now this critic also reviews Adele
Vocal Rating: C+
Recommended Listenings: Hometown Glory, I Can't Make You Love Me, Someone Like You, Rolling In The Deep
Positives: Adele is known for two things: Power, and Emotion. Though her belts don't stretch incredibly high range wise, they tower over most competitors in terms of sheer force (see Rolling In The Deep). Her emotions conversely, are just as moving. She plays scornful ex-girlfriend, wallowing-in-heartbreak ex-lover, and sweet-wife with gut wrenching ability.
Her lower register is weighty and full, (see Hometown Glory). The mid-range and belting register loses weight as it ascends, meaning that lower belts are more powerful than upper ones. Though not often used, Her falsetto is airy and used with great expression (Someone Like You), while the head voice is fuller, though not quite operatic. Excellent, natural vibrato.
Negatives: Adele uses improper, damaging technique to achieve the resonance of her upper belts. She also opts not to use her falsetto/head voice very often live, though this could be an artistic decision.
And finally for this example is Ellie Goulding - a massive current pop star
Vocal Rating: C
Recommended Listenings: Anything Could Happen, Hanging On, Army
An incredibly unique voice that only Goulding has. The head voice is where the voice finds its best qualities; in that register, the voice is nimble and able to move through complex melismas with ease, while even demonstrating operatic qualities (see Explosions and Intro (Delirium)). The notes can be plucked or connected smoothly, and demonstrate remarkable resonance. Her transitions from Chest to Head Voice and mastered with great accuracy (See Only You).
The low notes are very dark and thick, showing solid support throughout. The midrange belts are full. The voice carries a sweet and wispy timbre throughout all registers, making her voice very trademarked and recognizable.
Her timbre can sound like a child's, which is not to everyone's taste. The voice can be nasal, and she can be seen curling her nose while singing. Belts at higher frequencies are very thin (See the F5 in Salt Skin), coarse and forgo mixing.
So I read the negatives here with Goulding - Now I personally love her voice but there is no way to deny that "wispy"nature to it which is a word I used the second I heard it. I felt he voice was just barely hanging on to every note and was going to break off and fly away in the wind. So on the one hand I can see why the reviewer gives her a lower rating but at the same time the commentary is pretty glowing.
I like Ellie Goulding as a singer more than Mariah Carey as a singer but technically speaking in Carey's prime she is a vastly better singer if you are grading technique.
This is actually when I liked Ellie - before the industry turned into the pop star she is now.
But you can't make someone like what they don't like. If you're not a fan of a pop music - Lady Gaga isn't going to change your mind. And if the singers you like are Renata Tebaldi, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, Maria Callas - then Lady Gaga (or any pop singer) isn't likely going to change your mind.
As an aside, here is another vocal coach who rates singers from multiple genres - Aretha Franklin, Lady Gaga, Nina Simone, Babs, Katy Perry, Faith Hill, Amy Winehouse, Whitney Houston etc.
See what you think.
any clue as to when 'a star is born' is released on DVD?
According to Amazon - February 19th.
i just saw this yesterday. I also was expecting more based on the hype. I thought it was okay but far from great. My issue was more with the overall story than with the acting, playing, or singing. I just felt like the script didn't really bring these characters to life as much as it could have, particularly Bradley Cooper's character. The film scratches the surface of his inner demons but doesn't go far enough. Some of the trajectory of Lady Gaga's character's career was so trite it was difficult for me to become immersed in the film. This was definitely a film where I was aware I was watching a film the entire time and, at times, I was hoping the pace would pick up so the film would be over.
I've never seen any of the previous versions of A Star Is Born so I don't know how this story compares to any of the others, but I really felt like the two main characters had the potential to be far more engaging than they were.
My girlfriend had wanted to see it in the theatre but I refused. I wasn't going to pluck down $30 for a movie which I had no interest in. So, we watched it On Demand last night. How was this movie highly rated? I thought is was overly long and drawn out, the story was too convenient. She just all of a sudden becomes a professional singer just like that without years of training. I'm not going to nitpick over how even though she's homely they portrayed her as attractive. She has a good voice but I didn't care for any of the songs. Even my gf was asking what people were thinking calling it a good film.
An interesting take on the film from the Hollywood Reporter *hint (not good)
Camille Paglia: Sexism and the 'Star Is Born' Films (Guest Column)
Grain of salt to consider: Paglia has long been a fan of Streisand.
I mean it screams “chick flick.” That’s why didn’t even bother. And as my friend to me yesterday “I still haven’t gotten over the Kris Kristofferson movie. “
Terrible movie but Andrew Dice Clay was good as Gaga’s dad.
You're aware that hundreds - thousands? - of pop stars became famous "just like that" and had no formal training, right?
Yes, because producers with computers can fix all of their sh***y tracks. But, they look good so it's all fine and dandy.
You're aware that hundreds - thousands? - of pop stars became famous without formal training well before the era of "producer with computers", right?
Um, yes. I'm very well aware. Thanks !
As to the artist in question (Gaga), you can put her in a room with a mic and a piano and she knows what to do with them.
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You had me puking at Hollywood Reporter. You had me eating it back up with Paglia.
I agree, but it doesn't mean I believe anything she is saying. There's a difference. You can't wear conviction.
And people tried to get Cobain to get professional vocal training if he was gonna go around screaming like that.
He didn't take their advice. Imagine that.
In 2018 you don't know the plot to "A Star is Born" going in? A movie made 4 times already, three of those with the same title?
You certainly are not obligated to LIKE that plot, but it's not a problem to lay at Bradley Cooper's feet.
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