Abbey Road - How do you rip a CD with pre-emphasis to the hard drive ??

The de-emphasis is supposed to be done in the analog domain right after the DAC circuit since PE was applied in the analog domain before the ADC during mastering. I don't know if it's still done like that or not these days.

For those who wanted to know what pre-emphasis is...

Imagine a flat eq line at 0db from 0Hz (or, say, 20Hz since that's where all audio equipment start their listed measurements) to 3KHz. Then an increasing eq slope from 3KHz to 10KHz up to +10db. Then a flat +10db line from 10KHz to 22.05KHz (the cd format top limit).

The de-emphasis is supposed to reverse that eq with a -10db cut at the 10K shelf but still leave everything from 3K and lower alone

Whether it's a straight line eq graph or a spline curve that follows the 3K and 10K rollover points, no one seems to know.

Also, Roger Nichols had this to say about pre-emphasis on his website:

 

HI Guys,

Does anyone know for sure if the following cds have pre-emphasis?

Wing’s Greatest - Japanese EMI - Black Label

Wing’s Greatest - Japanese EMI - Black Triangle - CP35-3114

I've heard yes, no, maybe so. Since EAC doesn't indicate the pre-emphasis bit, is there another way to tell? My own CD player does not have a pre-emphasis light so I can't
tell that way.

Tom Kennedy

 

That one does for sure, I have it right here.

 

Just parcel those disks up with a couple of $50 notes (consultancy fee, you understand) and send them to me. I'll fire up my venerable Cambridge Audio CD2, note the status of the pre-emphasis indicator, and eventually return them.

As I have a CD player that reports PE I've never given much thought to the intricacies of determining the status of various early disks, but is there no computer software that can reliably perform this task? It wouldn't be very difficult to do would it?

 

Hey, you're welcome. There are other ways, as have been noted, but this one could hardly be easier ... especially for me, as I'd already had iTunes installed for a long time before discovering this little-known feature.

 

EAC will tell you if a disc has PE. Just scroll to the right after loading up a disc. It's the last column, after "Copy Protection."

 

I've never gotten EAC to correctly identify CDs with PE in the past 5 years I've used it on several computers and several more different optical drives, even updating EAC whenever a new version comes out. Consequently I can't get it to rip CDs with PE and get it to automatically note the PE flag in the CUE file. I have to flag the CUE file manually, or add the flags in my separate cd burning program.

 

Hi Zoo,

I had the same problem as Joel - on the Abbey Road disc, which I know has PE,
EAC indicates NO pre-emphasis. In fact, I've read that EAC problem in other
PE threads.

Tom Kennedy

 

Ah, didn't know that as I have no PE discs.

 

It seems accurate..I didn't know the Wall C2K had it, or DSOTM Harvest Japan non-TO matrix..and I've burned them to my harddrive using EAC, then made cdr copies.

Does Winamp show PE?

 

Does EAC allow you to set the PE flag? Is there any other software that can manually set a PE flag?

Derek

 

You can add the flag entry in the cue sheet (a simple txt file with a .cue extension you can edit in notepad) that you can let EAC create when you rip. But you have to add it to every track. I think it's mentioned earlier in this thread. There are other threads that discuss this... somewhere on this forum.

I use Feurio, a shareware cd burning program, and with it you can tick the box in a track parameters dialog to do the same thing, along with all the other sub-codes you can manipulate.

 

I wish someone would answer this question, or at least offer a link that will explain it in english. I'm fairly new to many of the terms used here, and wind up more confused than anything else.

 

Look back up at Post #26

A quick definition...

It was used early in CD manufacturing because the early pre-filters that cut the frequencies off on average at about 20.5 KHz (the CD format has an absolute hard top-end cut-off at 22.05 KHz) were thought to introduce extra noise below that into the audible range. And maybe they did, but as the pre-filters got better, the need for pre-emphasis was no longer there.

 

I ripped my Toshiba "Abbey Road" live in real time to 320bit mp3 (lame codec) with "Audiograbber" and then trimmed the mp3s with Mp3trim, ripping them as loud as possible without distortion. The side two medley is two large continuous mp3s. I downloaded some supposedly "pre-emphasis corrected" WAV files from Usenet once and they sounding nothing like the actual Toshiba CD.

MY mp3s sound GREAT, exactly like the CD... and still better than the stock EMI CD.

RE the Toshiba CD: the presence and fluidity of the bass guitar on "Come Together" is amazing, it almost has a 3D quality to my ears. The orchestra swells on "Something" are more noticable and dramatic than the EMI CD. The Toshiba CD proves for ME that it's ALL in the mastering.

Here's another thread RE the Toshiba "Abbey Road", if you skip to the middle of page two the pre-emphasis talk begins.
Toshiba Abbey Road CD

 

The problem is, it's in the table of contents, not in the bitstream. See for example, about half-way down this page. The .wav file is just the bitstream, the rest goes in the Cue sheet.

 

Thankyou kindly.

 

If your MP3s sound just like the CD, your CD (CD-R I'm assuming?) doesn't have PE set. With PE correctly set the tonality of the Japanese disc should be nearly identical to the stock CD. If it is quite a bit brighter you aren't compensating for the PE.

 

My computer's CD/CDR player properly de-emphasizes while playing. I encoded to mp3 live WHILE the CD played. I do all my mp3 projects live and have found it to sound better (to my ears) than an automatic WAV-MP3 conversion.

It must be the analog circuitry and wiring that smooths out the sound a bit.

 

Ha! If you are on a PC, Wavelab 4.0 (which is several years old now) will burn CDs with pre-emphasis! I just reburned a Toshiba Abbey Road CD-R dub and it worked. Wavelab is an expensive program....but if you gots it, use it!

Here's at least one way to do it (NOT explained in their "help" menu as far as I can see):

1. File-->New-->Basic Audio CD

2. Import your wave files.

3. Fifth column in from the left looks like a rainbow with the red end squashed and the purple end triangling up. THAT is the pre-emphasis tag. Check all the boxes. (They are normally unchecked.)

4. Burn your CD, and Presto! It sounds good! Not tinny any more!

5. Import into I-Tunes, go to Advanced-->importing-->wav encoder (or aiff encoder) and you can export the files without the pre-emphasis, and reburn. I don't know how perfect or accurate I-tunes' digital pre-emphasis circuitry is, but it does work.

If I get a break in the next couple days I'll post a clip of something from the standard CD, the Toshiba with and without pre-emphasis. Any requests?

 

Newer versions of EAC will not detect PE. This version will work:
http://www.rjamorim.com/rrw/files/eac/eac095pb3.zip .

You need to download and install this: http://download.adaptec.com/softwar.../aspi_471a2.exe.

Install EAC in a different directory along with the ASPI. After Installation go to EAC>EAC Options>Interface> and "check" Installed external ASPI and then close EAC. Restart EAC and go to: Action> TOC Alteration> Detect TOC Manually.

 

After de-emphasizing using iTunes, Toshiba Abbey Road has no peaks higher than
-6.027 db. I wonder if there's a way to perform the de-emph and a 6 db normalization in the 24-bit realm and avoid high-end signal loss.

 

Hi guys,

I thought I'd describe the way I did it. You might find it useful.

1) Rip the Toshiba "Abbey Road" CD to a wav file (16 bit 44.1kHz) with cue sheet (track marks). I use EAC (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de).
As you all already know, that the audio in this wav is stored pre-emphasized. We're gonna correct this in the following steps.

2) Convert wav Sample Type to 32 Bit 96kHz (upsample and increase resolution) with Pre/Post Filter (highest quality setting) turned on. I use CoolEdit 2.1 as sound editor.

3) Build the correct De-Emphasis FFT-Filter for pre-emphasized CD digital audio:

In a nutshell: The signal amplification 0dB remains constant up to the time constant 50μs, then it falls with 3dB/octave (simple RC filter). Starting from 15μs the signal amplification is constant -10dB.

The corresponding correct frequencies for CD digital audio de-emphasis are 0 - 3183 Hz (0 dB) then linear decrease to -10 dB at 10610 Hz and remains -10 dB for all the rest higher frequencies.
Pre-emphasis time-constants are explained here http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-timeconstant.htm

Ok, in CoolEdit it goes like that

Effect->Filters-FFT Filter...

Create a new FFT-Filter called "De-Emphasis"

Code:

(0 Hz)                3183 Hz
----------------------*        0dB
                       \
                        \
                         \
                          \
                  -10dB    *------------------------    -10dB
                           10610 Hz       (20000 Hz)

FFT Size:           16384
Windowing Function: Blackman

4) Having done that, normalize the de-emphasized 32 Bit 96kHz signal
Effect->Amplitude->Normalize...
Select Normalize to: 99.5%
Select Normalize L/R Equally
Select DC Bias Adjust: 0%

5) Now you've got the properly de-emphasized, fine "Abbey Road" version, which is still at 32 Bit 96kHz, so downsample it back for CD.

Select Edit->Convert Sample Type (F11) to 16 bit / 44.1 kHz again, with the Pre/Post Filter (highest quality setting) turned on. Also select: Enable Dithering, Dither Depth: 1 bit, p.d.f. (probability distribution function) : Triangular, No Noise Shaping.

6) Save the resulting wav and burn in to CD using the same original cue sheet (track marks) produced in step 1.
I use Nero (http://www.nero.com/nero7/enu/nero7-demo.php).
Menu Recorder->Burn Image...

7) Insert the CD into the CD player and enjoy the properly de-emphasized 'Holy Grail' of "Abbey Road" versions!

Best regards,
SolarWind

 

I can understand the need to upconvert the to 32-bit, but I've never found it neccessary to upconvert the sample rate too, especially if your going to go back to 44.1. I've just never found that to be a factor affecting sound quality.

 

I gave the FFT-filter setting a try some weeks ago but wasn't satisfied with the result. I checked out a parametric EQ setting I found in the net with better results. What works best in the digital domain, is described here in another thread. But even WavEmph doesn't come close to the analog circuit in my DAC. For best possible results I have to transfer the CD analog to my DAT-recorder an burn a CD-R after wards.