Abraxas - One step vs 50th Anniversay?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by AndrewSlattery, Jul 11, 2021.

  1. TheRealMcCoy

    TheRealMcCoy Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    This thread is something else... just because someone says something doesn't mean its true... wow. Everyone wants to think they have the best, at the end of the day its what YOU think is best based on what you hear. End of story.
     
    Greenmonster2420 likes this.
  2. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    That info is oftentimes not mentioned. Mastering engineers are only known to audiophiles and we're a niche market. As for why Sony paid KG, there could be many reasons. For instance, it is not unheard of for a company the size of Sony to keep a title pressed with the same mastering for many years with the sole differences being different colors, jackets, or other insignificant (from a SQ's perspective) variations.

    If Sony cared about keeping their in-house mastered product as an exclusively available pressing (or its variations) for X number of years, paying someone to do the best possible work with whatever source they provide is a good strategy. You do it once and do it right (source and gear limits notwithstanding) and get to have a good quality product available to the masses for years to come.

    That's what they did with the Hendrix titles. Looking at Axis, for instance, the AAA remaster from Marino, aside from one digitally-sourced pressing from MOV for the European market, is the sole non-audiophile [or mass-market, however you wish to refer to it] stereo available pressing of this album. They paid the mastering engineer once and for the last 11 years have sold that end result and can continue to do so for as long as they create stampers from it.

    You could go through KG's Discogs page and easily find that half of the albums he's mastered don't mention him on the hype sticker if there's even one at all. Sure, his name will appear prominently on all records that are part of the Tone Poet series. However, his name will only be mentioned in tiny letters on some Friday Music releases. Here's a screenshot of Boston's S/T. Look at the complete bottom-left.

    [​IMG]

    On some FM releases, it doesn't appear at all even though he's the one who cut it. Look at Eric Johnson's Ah Via Musicom as an example. Same with plenty of non-FM releases too. Only the runout will show that KG cut the record. You mentioned Sundazed earlier so I'll mention their reissue of Otis Redding's Sittin' On The Dock Of The Bay; zero mention of him anywhere on the jacket and no hype sticker either.

    Bottom line is aside from audiophile labels, records which aren't digitally sourced are the rare exception. It could even be argued that nearly all newly cut records from mass market labels are not AAA. There are represses and reissues of audiophile records such as the Sonny Rollins and CCR albums which were initially released on DCC and Analogue Productions respectively and whose reissues are on the mass market nowadays by Fantasy but next to all newly cut records from non-audiophile labels are not AAA. That puts new mass market AAA records in the tiniest of minorities. The chances that Sony records lent out the master tapes that were only last let out to MFSL for an extremely limited run for the first time in 1/4 of a century and decided to not make any mention of this in any way yet sell the record for a measly $20, and only advertise that the record is 180g are remote at best.

    Experience, history, and logic don't necessarily guarantee per se but definitely point toward my educated guess being overwhelmingly far more likely. If you choose to believe otherwise based entirely on the idea that you can somehow hear the AAA-ness of a record, that's your prerogative. I hesitate to bring this up but there were a number of instances in another thread where you were vouching for those LPs sounding AAA without anything to go on when they factually were digital. Some AAA records sound good and some digitally sourced records sound good. The only way to hear improvements is by comparison. Playing a single pressing of a record and believing we can somehow hear that it's an inherently AAA product is something that I from experience cannot get behind as a concept.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
    highfell, PdB73, RichC and 1 other person like this.
  3. cwd

    cwd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    I think I will buy a copy of the 50th and send and let him actually try it.
     
    AndrewSlattery likes this.
  4. Dhreview16

    Dhreview16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    I don’t know if this helps, but I have a UK CBS original of the debut, self titled Santana album, which is still in lovely near mint condition, as well as as the MOFI/MFSL 2x45 rpm GAIN 2 version (not One Step), which a friend brought back from the US for me and cost about $50. They both sound lovely to me, though a fair bit different. The MOFI sounds to me more detailed, and precise, with better separation, and clarity in the percussion. A bit more refined, if that’s what you want. Am I glad I spent $50 on it, yes, definitely. All the usual attributes of a MOFI. Would I be happy if all I had was my 1970 UK copy. Yes also. It’s a great sounding LP.
    Sadly for us Brits, the 50th anniversary Abraxas seems to have been released in the US only, and - being a Kevin Gray cut, seems a steal at $26/27 Stateside !
     
  5. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    This UK seller sells a copy for $35 USD. Not too bad.

    0888751942912 - Alibris UK
     
    Dhreview16 likes this.
  6. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Try Amazon, that's where I bought in Aus
     
  7. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    You're welcome to. Regardless of how it sounds, it wouldn't invalidate anything written in my previous reply in any way.
     
  8. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    I've just had a listen to the 50th straight after the Alan Parsons project MOFI iRobot 45rpm cut in $2500 headphones. This record sounds as good. It's 100% AAA Kevin Gray smashed the pants off this. This vinyl is so ridiculously silent too. As good as the Mofi. To say something is AAA to me means incredible transparency and detail. And the feeling of hearing it live. I'm very lucky to have headphones that are so good it sounds like you're sitting front row at the concert. Which also means I can tell instantly if something is digital. Also if something sounds better than MOFI's iRobot as a 33 vs 45 then it's 100% AAA
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  9. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    On re listening I reckon the 50th vinyl is actually quieter than the mofi vinyl! Its crazy quiet.
     
    cwd likes this.
  10. cwd

    cwd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    OK, you win! Seriously, if I read correctly, you haven't listened to the one in question? I respect that conclusions by inductive reasoning are a necessity but are not ironclad. I do not have a dog in this hunt but the arguments are entertaining.
     
    Ed the Dog likes this.
  11. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    The first argument is that the OP is jumping to conclusion based on merely listening to this title with no other pressings to compare it to that this title is AAA. I explained why that's highly unlikely.

    The 2nd argument is that one can hear with a single pressing that a title is AAA or not and I explained why that isn't something I can get behind.

    The 3rd argument is that if Kevin Gray has mastered a title, his name would figure prominently on the hype sticker and I explained how that isn't so oftentimes.

    Glad that you're enjoying yourself.
     
  12. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Once more, you have zero proof of that.

    That isn't what AAA means at all. It's about sourcing, period. Nothing to do whatsoever with SQ.

    No idea where you're sourcing your confidence from when you've been proven wrong so often in the previous thread. It's puzzling that you don't acknowledge these numerous instances, yet keep doubling-down with the same level of certainty about this title.

    A strange incorrect assumption.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
    Ragged Glory and simonux like this.
  13. cwd

    cwd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Clarksville, TN

    Thanks!
     
  14. simonux

    simonux Custom Title

    Location:
    France
    I really don't understand the point of OP. This is the second thread about AAA pressings where he claims this or that pressing is AAA because it sounds nice to his ears and without proving it.
    This is dangerous for this forum, it is supposed to be a source of informations here.
     
  15. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Exactly. That is why I'm not shy in calling him out on it. Spreading misinformation is simply short-sighted and should definitely not be encouraged. That kind of stuff belongs on Facebook and Reddit. Our standards should be higher here.
     
  16. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona desert
    The MFSL hybrid SACD sounds excellent if one plays the shiny little discs for their musical enjoyment.
     
    Bill Mac likes this.
  17. Riktator

    Riktator Surfer of the Audio Waves

    Location:
    Pugetropolis
    Noticing 2 threads about Abraxas made me wonder...any opinions of the 1981 Columbia Mastersound half-speed mastered as compared to the versions under discussion?
     
  18. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    I'm comparing the record I have with a high res 24bit needle drop of the UHQR Abraxas and the Gray cut hits it for 6
     
  19. ggergm

    ggergm another spring another baseball season

    Location:
    Minnesota
    As someone who has read the reviews of the ARS pressing for years but has never popped for one, and who has both the Sundazed, which sounds terrific, and an UK first pressing, which topped my US first press long ago, I'm going to get the 5oth anniversary version. Heck, it's only $25 or so. For a record as pivotal as Abraxas, it's worth a try.

    Analog vs. digital vs. a modern translation from the original Greek, I am not a purist. If I like the sound, I like the sound. Sure, I search for analog copies of many records I buy but I have heard too many digital remasters that have easily bested the analog originals to discount that technology.

    I still kick myself for passing on the Abraxas One-Step. I looked at it when it was offered and went, "Do I really need to spend $100 on yet another copy of Abraxas?" Yup, I should have.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  20. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Finally a common sense comment. You won't be disappointed. I'm still amazed at how good the vinyl is as well. Litterally zero surface noise. Like black quiet. It's actually got less noise than my new Mofi pressings
     
  21. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    I can use a 7th generation tape and the record I'd cut with that would still be AAA, yet it'd sound like crap compared to a digitally-sourced record cut from ADC'ed master tapes (assuming it's mastered well). And yes, those do exist.

    The caliber of your gear and the differences in your analog and digital system chains will also *greatly* color the results so the comparison is rather meaningless. It'd be far easier if it weren't, though.

    It's too bad you're wholly uninterested in getting educated about this. A bunch of people tried to provide you with knowledge in your previous thread but you just ignore it all and continue with those wild theories. Ironic that you made a "common sense" retort when actual usage of it would be to forego assumptions based on fundamentally flawed blanket statements and comparison methods.
     
    Greenmonster2420 likes this.
  22. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Mate you could say that you are spreading misinformation more than I am. You don't even own the record to be able to make an honest assessment of the sound, yet you're commenting like you were in the studio while Kevin cut the record?

    I've been listening to this record on a really good system with reference-level studio headphones MrSpeakers Ether 2 review: true high-resolution headphones . They are so detailed they make badly sourced material sound really bad, and brilliant records sound jaw dropping. They're so detailed you can hear how much more detail they got out of the original cut of Dark Side of the Moon vs Kevin's 30th Anniversay cut due to the tapes being fresher.

    I've played this record in between mint original UK presses of Dark Side of the Moon, and Mofi's iRobot.

    It sounds as good if not better. You cannot get that level of detail and clarity from a digital copy. I don't know where they pressed this either but the vinyl is more silent than my Mofi records.

    It's almost as if Sony has gone out big for the 50th anniversary issue in an attempt to better the One Step, which is getting over $3000 a pop on discogs!

    How about you just drop $25 on the record and make an informed comment? If someone actually has concrete evidence that this is a digital copy then I'll happily eat my hat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
    Greenmonster2420 likes this.
  23. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Let's review. Your supposed golden ears and awesome headphones that can absolutely tell a title is AAA were factually wrong about the following;

    Elton John remasters by Grundman
    Queen - A Night At The Opera (Abbey Road 1/2-master)
    Bee Gees - Timeless
    Pink Floyd – Delicate Sound Of Thunder (digital recording)
    Miles Davis - Sketches Of Spain
    Queens Of The Stone Age – Songs For The Deaf
    Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill (digital recording)
    Miles Davis – Bags Groove

    You've also vouched for the awesomeness of a Beatles compilation with over 30 min of music per side and wrote a bunch of other nonsense I can't be bothered to enumerate.

    By this point, most people would be red-faced and learn from the experience as well as the relayed knowledge but you instead dismiss or ignore it. Posting hogwash will inevitably result in people calling you out on it. You claim as though factual a pressing is AAA. Prove it. You can't? Checkmate. Don't want to lose an argument, to get called out or have people state you spread misinformation? Easy; tone it down and change your approach because as shown above, it clearly doesn't work.
     
    Greenmonster2420 likes this.
  24. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Elton John remasters by Grundman - These are actually cut by Sean McGee and Robert Ludwig, but ok...

    Queen - A Night At The Opera (Abbey Road 1/2-master) - I said it sounded like a AAA record it's that good.

    Bee Gees - Timeless - I stand by this

    Pink Floyd – Delicate Sound Of Thunder (digital recording) - Never said this was AAA. In fact I'm fairly certain I actually asked whether it was a digital recording.

    Miles Davis - Sketches Of Spain -

    Queens Of The Stone Age – Songs For The Deaf

    Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill (digital recording) - According to the In Groove it's AAA - MIKE'S PICKS FOR THE TOP 100 IN PRINT ANALOG RECORDS.

    Miles Davis – Bags Groove - I stand by this.

    Also mate you keep commenting on records you don't own. Re the Beatles album above, it's a special cut. I'm sure all other non Maxicut records of that album sound like garbage, but this doesn't. I have every original Aussie press of the Beatles. Pretty much all of them use the original UK plates, so I think Im able to accurately comment on the sound. Vs you who doesn't actually own the record and hasn't heard it
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
  25. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I understand your question.

    KG will work on digitally sourced masters, so it's a possibility that it's from digital. But is it??

    We don't know for sure, but it's likely, since nowadays, labels like to tout when a record is all analog. It's a selling point.

    The likelihood is that the Legacy Abraxas is from digital? Is it as good as the ARS and the OneStep? The only way to know is to compare all three.

    The ARS was ~$35 when the OneStep came out. While AAA, it was likely sourced from a 2nd generation tape. It doesn't have the astonishing harmonic detail of the OneStep, but it's got tremendous overall presence and bravado, getting close to the overall musical impact provided by the OneStep. The ARS is like watching a high-def CRT TV. It has tremendous dynamic range, the equal or better of an OLED, but don't have the astonishing razor-like sharpness. Still, I watch Blu-Ray movies on the CRT and the image is gorgeous and alive.
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine