Abraxas - One step vs 50th Anniversay?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by AndrewSlattery, Jul 11, 2021.

  1. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    The ARS is mega. In fact I didn't realise how good until I played it after many years on my current system. Actually have the ARS of the first 3 Santana albums. Also for those who find it annoying there is no break in sides which is significant with Abraxas.
     
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  2. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Yeah, I don't know why they'd break the continuity. At that point, it might be wise to think about resequencing to prevent breaks.

    Same thing with Marvin Gaye's What's Going On?
     
  3. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    They got round it on Vanilla Fudge by repeating a section of music on the next side.
    .
     
  4. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's a (better) compromise but not the way I'd go about it. :sigh:
     
  5. Jerry James

    Jerry James Rorum Fesident

    Here's all the deadwax info on my Sundazed "Abraxis" copy. I purchased this second hand a few years ago. Sure looks like Kevin's initials at CA to me.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    It sounds awesome.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  6. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    I see you have a few copies of Ziggy Stardust. Which one do you like better?
     
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  7. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Intriguing comment on Discogs; "Mastered and cut by Kevin Gray at Camarillo."

    Is that a mistake from the Discogs user who submitted this info? 1st time I've heard of Camarillo.
     
  8. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    I'm waiting for my 2016 AAA cut to arrive to see how it compares to my 2020:) Apparently, they use the same mastering. 2016 uses the 2012 40th anniversary plates. The 2020 uses the digital master from 2012. Will let you know when it arrives. It's already taken a month from England so far haha

    My 2020 sounds good. Dead silent vinyl. It sounds great, but just doesn't have that 3D analog sound. Very much looking forward to hearing the 2016 once it arrives.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  9. Fruff76

    Fruff76 L100 Classic - Fan Club President

    I have an original RCA that sounds awesome, just a little noisy from age etc. I’m thinking of getting a newer clean one, but I don’t want a dud. Curious to know how the 2016 compares with the 2020
     
  10. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Here's some info for you on why it's possible to cut a good sounding 30min record with the Australian "Maxicut" process.

    You probably don't know about this as EMI Australia was the only place in the world that had these modified machines.

    Apparently there were only two made.
    The Secret Society of Lathe Trolls

    "Of the two VMS70 lathes at Studios 301, one was sent to the factory as a backup to the VMS82 DMM system in the new cutting studio installed there, and the one that remained at Studios 301 was donated to the Australian Government's National Film and Sound Archive once 301 quit cutting vinyl. Edit : The VMS70 from the factory disappeared without trace.

    So someone somewhere is more than likely cutting with Maxicut but more importantly can someone come up with this mod?"


    EMI "Maxicut" Record Mastering (vinyl cutting) Process

    And a quote below from one of the EMI mastering engineers who cut with the Maxicut system.

    Another nice piece on the EMI 301 Studio with an awesome quote from Alan Parsons (The engineer from Dark Side of the Moon).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
  11. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Thanks for sharing. That actually confirms that the 50th Anniversary is using the Sundayzed plates. As it's exactly the same matrix as my 50th.

    It probably also explains why Sony haven't been beating their chest saying this was cut by Kevin, as one would assume that if you're paying him to cut and hype something that you could only do that on the original release that he was paid for? I could be wrong though. Would also explain why the current Nirvana Nevermind cut doesn't jump up and down about it being AAA cut by Bernie Grundman.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  12. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    THIS is the kind of proof I'm referring to! Interesting that a TOTL modified machine was dedicated regionally to Australia to cutting a few records like this. Appreciate the heads-up about this exception.

    It'd be interesting to see the last year that this process was used. I couldn't find any albums beyond 1987 featuring "Maxicut" in the deadwax. Note that it sometimes is written as "Maxi Cut".

    Aside from those few exceptions, it is not recommended to cut a record that long. It will inevitably lead to many problems. Here's KG on this;

    https://www.cohearent.com/recommended-side-times/

    "Yes, it is possible to squeeze 30 minutes or more on an LP side. BUT the level (volume) on the record will be VERY LOW and when turned up to play back, surface noise will be considerably louder."

    As mentioned many times before (by myself in this thread, too) mastering engineers are oftentimes not promoted on hype stickers regardless of circumstances. It is more the exception that they are mentioned at all than the rule. Hell, none of the killer reissues of Fleetwood Mac's Rumours which are AAA and mastered by our host and KG mentioned any of those 3 things on the hype sticker. There would be a tiny blurb about Pallas but the new ones using the same plates don't even show that anymore.

    That is the reason why bringing *proof* is important; not just assumptions or hopes presented as fact.

    Now, I'm curious where the Sony was pressed as it isn't mentioned and a number of people appear to be having issues with their copies. Sundazed was never praised for their consistency in their LPs' QC either, though.
     
  13. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    I'm glad you like my "proof". However next time maybe don't be so arrogant and aggressive about someone's opinion on the sound quality of an album they own and are listening to unless you also own the same record and can comment on the sound.

    I don't know where Sony had this pressed however my copy does have the "scratchy" noise mentioned on the last 20 seconds of side 1. Apart from that the rest of the album is drop-dead silent. So silent you can't even hear the needle on the record in between tracks with headphones.
     
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  14. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Believe it or not by my "2016 cut" just arrived in the post, and after opening it they sent me the bloody 2020! Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
    I should have bought a near mint copy and confirmed the matrix as apparently the 2020 and 2016 have the same packaging and barcode...

    The 2020 sounds decent and clean. However very digital. It just doesn't fill the room.
     
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  15. Dhreview16

    Dhreview16 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    In the UK, we have the same issue with Abraxas. Copies being sold as 2020 are actually the 2016 or 2017 EU version according to some buyers, not the 50th anniversary cut. The product numbers are identical or nearly so. So for now I will stick with my near mint original CBS.
     
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  16. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    I bought mine off discogs as well from the actual 2016 link... Frustrating. Hopefully I get a refund as it was from an actual "store" on discogs, rather than some random bloke.

    For the Abraxas 50th it's got a green hype sticker on the jacket that says something like 5 times platinum. No mention of 50th Anniversary though. I got mine off Amazon in Aus. Maybe try Amazon. You can always easily return if it's the wrong one.
     
  17. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    So I got an email back from Kevin Gray!
    He said that Abraxas is one of his favourite albums ever.
    The only negative is he said he can't reveal his source unless the album does! Erggghhhhh...

    [​IMG]


    I've listened to this again just now and it smoked every record before and after. This honestly sounds better than the original Beatles albums, Roger Waters Amused to Death, Pink Floyd originals! And the vinyl is actually more silent than every analog productions, mofi and other album I own. You can barely hear the needle in between tracks. If this is proven to be a digital recording I will given the person who can prove it any record in my collection.

    My tip would be to take the punt and buy this now for $25 while you can before this is a $500 record. The One step is already going for thousands and I can't imagine this could sound that much worse
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  18. tubesandvinyl

    tubesandvinyl Forum Resident

    I'll take KG over Mofi any day!!
     
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  19. Vinylfindco

    Vinylfindco The Pressing Matters

    Location:
    Miami
    I saw this edition with the 5x Platinum hype sticker at a Bullmoose today (I'm in Maine this week) and passed it by because I have the ARS. I may go back and get it because now I'm very curious.
     
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  20. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Would love to hear your thoughts on how they compare
     
  21. Vinylfindco

    Vinylfindco The Pressing Matters

    Location:
    Miami
    I'll definitely go back and get it, and let you know.
     
  22. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    OK, If it's that good I will have to splodge £40 to import a copy. If it doesn't come close or beat the ARS, you must buy me an MFSL One Step! :) BTW an EU 2020 does not really exist. There is only the 2016, though I don't think it sounds particularly digital.
     
  23. Vinylfindco

    Vinylfindco The Pressing Matters

    Location:
    Miami
    Are there other identifying marks beside the hype? Copyright date or barcode? Mention of Kevin Gray on the back?
     
  24. AndrewSlattery

    AndrewSlattery Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Melbourne
    Just the hype sticker as far as I can tell. There's no mention of Kevin anywhere on the cover etc. Only in the deadwax.

    I got mine from Amazon, so it'd be a fairly safe bet to buy from there. If by some chance they've swapped to an old copy you can always return very easily through Amazon.
    https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B01BLAP29G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Accoustic sounds also has it
    Santana-Abraxas-180 Gram Vinyl Record|Acoustic Sounds
     
  25. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    I’m seriously amused by people losing their minds over this version of Abraxas that came out last December. It’s been on Discogs for ages with the dead wax info showing KG. And yet it’s only blown up in the last month.

    :whistle:
     

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