Acquired an AR XA turntable

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by sushimaster, Jul 28, 2018.

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  1. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

    My dad had one of these. When I was a teenager I spent many hours listening to LP's on it.
    Mostly Belafonte at Carnegie Hall. Such fond memories.
    Don't know what happened to it.
    So I purchased one recently off eBay for $170. I have some restorations planned.

    I just ordered a new belt, new AR Inc. brass logo, and a new Pathe Wings cork and rubber mat.
    I have an extra Shure V type III cart that I'm trying to put on, but the screws are too short.
    Here's a couple of pictures.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. rhing

    rhing Forum Resident

    There is a guy named Marc Morin who specializes in rebuilding AR XA and AR XB turntables to a level far above the original performance level of these turntables. The really cool thing is that his mods are mostly with the bearings, motor, belt, tonearm bearings, etc., so the entire deck still has that stock look, but operates at a level commensurate with one coating hundreds, if not $1,000 more. He can be found on the Vinyl Engine and AudioKarma forums.
     
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  3. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I've heard of him. I may hit him up if I can't get it to perform to my satisfaction.
     
  4. cre009

    cre009 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Marc posts on Audiokarma and willingly offers up advice. I don't believe he has posted on Vinylengine for years.

    Be warned that most belt suppliers sell incorrect size belts with wrong width and thickness leading to speed issues. Only one or two sell the correct belt.

    Looks like you will have to spend some effort cleaning the gunk from the platter where the old foam mat has dissolved and crusted.
     
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  5. rhing

    rhing Forum Resident

    If you have a machinist friend, they can mount it in a lathe without damaging the bearing shaft, and you can use steel wool to work that gunk off the surface. Goo Gone works well, but wear some protective gloves when working with that stuff.
     
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  6. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    I can connect you directly with Marc.

    Trust me on this... you owe it to yourself to at least consult with him on what options are available.

    I sold a very nice Thorens TD-124 because I preferred my Marc Morin AR.
     
  7. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    The hardest part to find is the headshell and yours looks in good shape, so be careful with it (the nylon "threads" that hold it to the arm get messed up easy). The platter and subplatter will clean up easy with a solvent like alcohol or naptha, I'd avoid taking the subplatter out of the bearing if you can avoid it. By far the most fragile part is the armrest and yours looks original - beware, it can snap off really easily and most already have. Sturdier aftermarket replacements are available when it does.
     
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  8. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

    The rabbit hole is deep with this one.
    Action Pact, I've seen your Marc Morinized AR XA posted on the net.
    The fact that it sounded better than your Thorens TD124 is scary.
    If you could kindly PM me his contact, I'll would appreciate it.
    I also have a highly modified Rega RP3 with groovetracer mods, and a slightly modded Thorens TD 160 in my arsenal, so this will be interesting to compare.
     
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  9. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yeah I already snapped the armrest this afternoon when I took the T-Bar out to clean.
    The plywood sides on the bottom is already separating where the bottom cover slides in.
    It's going to need some work for sure.
     
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  10. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    How available are plastic AR head shells? Are there other options for head shells for these machines?
     
  11. Marcev

    Marcev Sit back, Relax, and Enjoy the Music

    Location:
    New York
    The original shells show up from time to time on auction sites, usually around 40 dollars. You can find a few reproductions on the auction sites as well. If your buying originals, pay close attention to the threads because they tend towards being stripped if the previous owner was not careful. Same with the threads on the cartridge mount. Newer shells had brass inserts that mitigated this while the older ones had just plastic threads.

    As for the belts, a site called Vinyl Nirvana sells the right belt(s) for the XA. The site also has good info on how to service the XA... Enjoy the turntable, I love mine and its so simple to work on.
     
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  12. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I couldn't wait.
    I looked everywhere, I found some correct fitting headshell screws for my AT440MLA.
    I got one of those el cheapo but goodie digital scales that showed I was at 1.7 grams tracking force.
    My Hagerman UFO disc weight/speed strobe indicated that the speed was ever so slightly on the fast side (but I have a new belt coming).

    I had hand tightened my suspension earlier after removing and cleaning the T-Bar. On the firm side. Because I like the suspension a little more firm just like with my car.
    Somehow the tighter suspension with the heavy weight of the UFO, and the Audio Technica cartridge, the stars were aligned.
    I was not prepared when I plugged it into my Rane mixer, and casually listening through my Audio Technica studio headphones just to see if it works...

    I mean I haven't even sent it out to Marc Morin yet, I couldn't believe my ears. This is not the table I remembered as a teenager.
    The table I had as a teenager, had an entry level yellow Shure cartridge, wasn't checked to see what the tracking force was, the records were hand cleaned with an RCA brush and fluids that still sounded crackly after scrubbing them. And the table plugged directly into the phono input of a Dynaco SCA-35 integrated tube amp which fed some STAX electrostatic cans. What I heard just now was punchy, tight, and dynamic. It was swinging.

    And this is just on stock wires, stock suspension, stock belt, stock arm, etc...
    Going to plug it into my main system tonight consisting of Hagerman Bugle Phono Preamp, Conrad Johnson Premiere 17LS preamp, Van Alstine Ultravalve tube amp, JBL 4312 speakers (recapped).
    The thing I still remember and hate about this table is not having a damn tonearm lift. Now that I'm older, my hands are fatter and even more shaky.


    [​IMG]
     
  13. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

    eBay has everything, like seriously.

     
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  14. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

    Take the weight off the platter, you're messing with the tuning of the suspension! Compress it too much and you won't get the full glory of the AR's imaging capability!

    To properly set the compression... tape together two popsicle sticks (approx 1/8" thick). With a record on the platter, adjust the spring pressure so that the sticks just barely slide under the platter all the way around.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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  15. AvFan

    AvFan Forum Resident

    +1. Marc did a full suite of mods to my XB and it is amazing. No joke on the TD-124 comparison; besides @action pact I heard the same thing from others. And there is no shame in replacing the base if it is has a vinyl covered MDF one like my XB or a less than stellar original walnut one. Just saying....
     
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  16. cre009

    cre009 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    In the UK the Universal version of these decks were sold with an aftermarket arm lift from Colton that is very effective. I understand these arm lifts were rare in the US.

    The arm pivot is regarded as a strength on there decks and allow it to perform better than a lot of arms. Unfortunately the brittle head shells combined with the lack of cueing can be a weakness. As a result in the past people liked to perform chassis surgery and replace arms using "Merrill modifications" or similar.

    These days the original arm pivot is back in favour though people will often swap to a technics arm tube to allow use of SME bayonet style head shells rather than the chunky AR head shell.

    All sorts of tweaks and upgrades are possible and probably as much as your wallet will allow. DIY is quite viable to keep costs down. See the John Weathers sites for ideas about refurbishment.

    AR XA Turntable Rebuilding
     
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  17. Mister Pig

    Mister Pig I didn't Choose Farm Life It Chose Me

    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    Marc Morin built a lovely AR XA for me, and it is no joke that it is close to a TD 124 or Garrard 401 in overall performance. Yes the sound is different, but its not far off in terms of overall sound quality. And my TD 124 had a full monty of upgrades, the table/plinth/arm venturing into the $4k range of cost.

    The only drawback to an XA is that the arm does not have VTA adjustment, so you have to shim the cartridge. If you use one with line contact styli, this is a bear of a job. A friend of mine who loves audio, but is short on green needed a table. He cares about fine things, and my table had a plinth done in Lacewood by the great fellow above AVFan. I love the looks of that table, and it can only be sold back to me. I have to say if I regret anything, its losing the lovely cosmetics that AV and Marc accomplished. I get to hear the table a few of times a month, and its being loved and appreciated.

    Marc's mods are top shelf for this table. He is an encyclopedia of knowledge, as a retired automotive engineer. He doesn't charge an arm and leg for his work, and you get a massive return on money spent.

    The XA is a gem of a table, and I hope you get it all sorted out to your satisfaction.

    Cheers
    Mister Pig
     
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  18. Guitarded

    Guitarded Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    Nice. Best of luck with the Resto.
     
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  19. Dr. J.

    Dr. J. Music is in my soul

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    I have an early two-motor AR-XA and an AR-XB with Technics arm mod. I love these tables and want to have Marc perform his magic but the motors are definitely limiting factors. Let me say that I have a long email thread with Marc and he's been very helpful, but when it comes to fixing noisy motors there's really not much one can do. I disassembled, cleaned, and relubed the main motor on AR-XA three times per Marc's instructions, and it's still clicky and choppy. Marc's reply to this was to get a Hurst replacement motor or an original motor from another table. Maybe my timing was bad, but nothing came up on Ebay for months. I was ready to buy a Hurst when I stumbled upon a post from Marc on AK where he described these new motors as sounding like "weed wackers". Apparently there's some esoteric fix that George Merrill came up with involving a metal rod and hammer, but you've got to be kidding me. Really? Perhaps Marc knows of such a fix but is tight lipped about it. Once I factored in all the mods and a new Merrill motor, I was already close to a grand. So I gave up and picked up a new Rega P3.

    The irony of it all is that when I picked up the Rega at the dealer I notice that he had an AR-XB on the shelf. I asked about it, and he said he botched an arm rewire and wasn't interested in sinking any more time into it. He sold it to me for $50! And it has a decent cover. I brought it home, cleaned it up, and put a Technics arm on it that I picked up off Ebay for $20. I like it more than the XA because of the arm lift and the ability to swap cartridges. But since I blew all my money on the Rega, I'll have to wait a long time before I can afford a complete Marc Morin treatment.
     
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  20. AvFan

    AvFan Forum Resident

    The AR tables have built-in compromises and @Dr. J., @cre009 and @Mister Pig have noted three but if those issues can be addressed without too much hassle the ARs are wonderful performers and values. Maybe use a cartridge that isn't as fussy about a 92 degree stylus rake angle or try different thickness tonearm thrust plates or spacers. Admittedly this isn't practical if lots of different cartridges are used. Changing to a Technics arm tube allows SME type head shells. I've not had a noisy motor but the XA and XB motors are not shielded plus to make matters worse my XB motor sits proud of the top plate and creates a noticeable hum in my Grado cart and a lesser one in my SUT. So, I use MCs and have positioned my SUT to minimize the hum.
     
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  21. Mister Pig

    Mister Pig I didn't Choose Farm Life It Chose Me

    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    Yes there are limitations inherent in an XA or XB table. But once Marc has worked his magic the sound top shelf, and you can get fantastic performance for the money spent. I do not know of a better value in hi fi than a Morinized XA or XB. If I had to watch my tens and twenties, and only had one choice, this would be the table I could settle down with.

    Since you have retired from building beautiful frames, I suppose Larry Spence is the next choice to getting a beautiful XA. If I could ever solve the arm VTA isue I would own another one.

    Cheers
    Mister Pig
     
  22. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    I had an AR XB, which was my first HiFi turntable (an upgrade from an entry-level turntable). Have fond memories of it.

    After some time I was offered a Grace tonearm, and had it fitted (it required some machining of the aluminum support under the platter. The Grace tonearm was a marked improvement on the original arm. A few years ago I met my friend who inherited my AR when I upgraded again (30 yrs ago) and he said that AR is still performing to it's previous high standard.
     
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  23. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    Is that a record clamp or have the aliens landed?
     
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  24. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

  25. sushimaster

    sushimaster Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I found this amazing site that sells custom AR-XA tables. Many of them have Rega arms. They all look unique, interesting and amazing.
    GHA Custom AR-XA Tables
     
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