Advice for someone trying to set up their first system

Hi guys,

So I’ve been collecting vinyl for a little over 3 years now and am finally in a situation where I can afford, and have room for my own system.
Up until now Ive been using my dads system. This isn’t ideal as I have to go home (over 2 hours away) if I want to listen to my records, which I usually do at least one weekend a month.

Ive done extensive research over the past few months about what turntable to get, what else I need etc.
The thing is I don’t really know much about what I should be prioritising.
I want to get a system that I can be pretty happy with for the foreseeable future so I am willing to spend a decent amount(€3000-€4000).
From what I’ve read the clearaudio concept seems to be the best turntable in my price range.

I know a lot of this is down to personal preference but there seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people here so I was hoping you could help with a few questions.

Is the MC worth the extra money over the MM or would I be better using my budget on other areas?

Roughly how much should I be spending on a preamp and speakers and does anyone have any suggestions?

Ive seen a lot of people talking about cables on here. Should I be spending some money on these or are they an unnecessary extra. If they are very important, any recommendations?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for the help.

 

The basic Clearaudio Concept with magnetic tonearm bearings is sensitive to footfalls - better to upgrade the tonearm to the mechanical bearing type - I believe that's the Verify arm.

You'll get a wide range of opinions on how best to spend your money. It might be best if you have a dealer help you out, but keep in mind their largest margins are in cables, yet cables have the least significant impact on the sound (IMO of course).

 

#1 and most important question:
how large is your room and how long will this space be your room?
You are very fortunate to actually live in the Land of Analog - I'd find myself a good dealer so you could actually hear the kit - you are certainly in the right country for it
Good luck!
Michael

 

Speakers.

 

Man, where to start? Welcome to the fold. Everybody has their own favorites and priorities. My suggestion is to get out there and do some listening- whether dealer showrooms, local audiophiles (most are happy to show off their systems) and think about used equipment from established manufacturers that has been vetted by a seller that will stand behind it.
I wouldn't get carried away with fancy wire or tweaks (though I use both in my main system). You want to get the basics right.
There's a strong tradition of good hi-fi from the UK and Ireland. Many of the issues you'll face are binary choices- high mass v. low mass turntable (most high mass tables require additional isolation if no suspension); tables sold integrated with arm v. separate arm (I prefer the latter but as a matter of budget you may choose the former); tubes v. transistors (may depend in part on the loudspeaker choices you make); dynamic speaker v. planar v. horn and all sorts of hybrid approaches, leaving aside more esoteric driver designs; high efficiency v less so in speakers and of course, self-powered monitors (there are some good ones but...).
The MM v MC question is just another facet. You should hear the difference- even those well schooled in things audio will have a hard time finding opportunities to evaluate cartridges short of having them in their system. The relationship between tonearm and cartridge can also be important. Some of this is stuff you can read up on if you haven't already, but the real test is going to be in the listening.
My take: you can build a very good system for your budget. Part of the task is listening- not to the salespeople but to the equipment, and figuring out what you like about different types of gear. And go from there. It's a bit of an adventure but the hard work in getting exposed to as many different systems and sounds as possible will exponentially increase your odds in getting something you can live with. (Be careful of the "best in class' "A rated" component approach to this-- if it doesn't work together as a system, it doesn't matter how highly regarded a particular component is by reviewers).
I wanted to compose a limerick for you:
There was a lad near Dublin
Who was seeking hi-fi without troublin'
But he asked for advice,
and though he was nice,
he got so much, his brain was a bubblin'
(I'm better at audio than limericks)
bill hart

 

Experts will be along with technical details but IMO, quite a lot depends on a couple of other concerns.
1) Are you interested only in new equipment?
2) Are you bothered what your equipment looks like?

There can be better value in used equipment - obviously bought from somewhere you can trust or you may know places that can service things. Aesthetics are probably more relevant with turntables - oil-rig chic versus wooden classical, for example. Also, you sometimes find sellers with entire systems for sale and this can be advantageous as someone has done the hard work in matching components - hopefully properly Maybe someone upgrading who has a matching set-up by one maker.

I have found that MC definitely was worth the upgrade from MM but I enjoy listening to both. I think many would admit the same. Entry level MCs like the Dynavector 10x5, Denon 103r and maybe Benz and Hana carts (maybe too dear?) have all made many music-lovers very happy indeed. With MMs carts though, you can often buy better stylii upstream if you like the signature sound.

I'd also ask how much real-estate do you have for speakers - floor standing or stand mounts - maybe with a sub or not?

Most important, I think, is establishing a relationship with a local dealer and going from there.
Cheers,
DD

 

Thanks so much everyone.
I was planning on talking to and hopefully buying from a dealer as they would probably be able to help me with setting in up and what not.
The room I'm using is pretty small(around 12x10 feet) but I was planning on having floor speakers.
I would be willing to buy second hand from a dealer but probably not from an online seller.
Aesthetics aren't overly important to me.
I will try visit a few dealers over the next few weeks and get a feel for different systems.
Thanks again.

 

This quote from Helom per above, is, in my opinion, the absolute best advice you'll ever get about setting up a good first system:

"You'll get a wide range of opinions on how best to spend your money. It might be best if you have a dealer help you out, but keep in mind their largest margins are in cables, yet cables have the least significant impact on the sound (IMO of course)."

My only addition to his sage advice is to try more than one dealer, make sure you can demo at home, don't get locked into any one component or brand & let the dealer pick your cables with an understanding that you won't be wanting to play the cable upgrade game. Good dealers want to be around next year & ten years from now when you go for another purchase so they need satisfied customers in order for that to happen. A good system is about the synergy.

 

As far as accuracy, speakers are the most INaccurate by a mile and make far and away the most difference to your sound, especially as they work into three dimensions inaccurately. Next is the stylus/cartridge, since it is also a transducer. After that I'd say the tonearm and the rest of the turntable. Amplifiers don't all sound the same but the differences are far smaller, and while I have heard cables make a difference I believe for most people the system has to be pretty expensive before they can start hearing differences, if ever-and again the differences are orders of magnitude less than changing speakers.

Some people will say to spend the big money on the source "because if it's not good the speaker can't reproduce it" however that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the relative inaccuracy of each part of the chain, and how much gross difference to the sound each makes. So speakers should still be the brunt of the money. This advice has to be tempered by the fact that amplifiers with good phone stages simply have a certain price of entry, and outboard phono stages not free. Plus you don't want to start off with the cheapest junky table/cartridge, because even if the sound was still decent you probably just won't be satisfied in your mind. Gently used equipment a few years old can be great buys with a bit of luck-certainly speakers and amps don't wear out, and even a good turntable should still be good albeit perhaps needing a new stylus.

A big thing with speakers and vinyl is that depending where your speakers are, you can get feedback if you turn it up, so that might be a big consideration for your turntable.

For speaker advice, you need to describe your room and where you can put speakers and how physically large, and if you want to mess with subwoofers or prefer not too.

 

Don't cast aside bookshelf speakers just yet. Modern bookies (can) have plenty of bass and a small room can be easily overwhelmed by floorstanding speakers with multiple woofers and a large cabinet. Also bookies can image very well as there is less cabinet diffraction. Finally if the speakers are going to be near a rear wall or even corner loaded try and find front/down ported speakers (or passive radiator). If they are rear ported see if the manufacturer includes foam port inserts.

 

People who say that there should be a certain % allotted to this or to that are not taking into account the existence of outstanding components which have outstanding performance that will greatly elevate your sound quality & listening enjoyment, and which you should "make" fit into your budget even if it means spending less elsewhere. The #1 thing is to actually try to listen to what you are considering if possible. I would try to find some efficient speakers you like; needing more watts and having to buy a more expensive & powerful power amp will mean less money to spend elsewhere, where it is more important. The source, tt, cartridge, arm is very important but doesn't have to be expensive, especially if you buy used. If buying new, the Project turntable line is worth considering among others. If buying used, a real sleeper are the vintage Harman Kardon T series of turntables. They have a good suspension and come equipped with an uncommonly good arm for an integrated turntable. Many people in the forums say they are at least the equal of same era Thorns turntables in performance. The arm is made of carbon fiber and is suitable with medium to high compliance cartridges. If you want to go moving coil, because you want to hear more openess, depth and speed, you will have to find a higher compliance moving coil than usual. I think the Audio Technica OC9III is supposed to be more compliant than usual, and it is one of the better choices anyway. NOS ones are around, for maybe $350 sometimes. Moving Iron cartridges usually have higher output and higher compliance and often have transient speed close to moving coils. If you want a warmer sounding cartridge Grado might fit the bill. If you will only only be playing lps, you can get a good phono stage and buy a power amp with left and right level controls for an extremely short "straight wire with gain" signal path. If you need more flexibility, some of the vintage Denon optical class A integrated amps I like.The PMA 520 to 920 series, also the PMA 737 to 777 series. They are very natural sounding and have uncommonly good depth. They can be had very cheap and will also save you money to put more into speakers and cables. If you want an even more fantastic phono section you can always add one on. For speakers, how about a vintage pair of KEF R107's ? They can be had used for around $1,000 or a little more. Back in the 1980's they were among the best speakers you could buy, performance wise. I heard them and I bet they still hold up to some expensive speakers of today. Both Hi Fi News and Stereophile gave them glowing recommendations. I am sure they are still a very good speaker and I do not have to ask what kind of music you listen to; they sound good on every type. Chord Clearway is pretty nice and reasonably priced interconnect cable and even though it hasn't hit the media yet, Chord is coming out with a new version of their Shawline speaker cable. I think they are considering calling it Shawline X. Buying used can give you a performance level you never thought you could get within your price constraints. This system will sound like it should cost about $15,000 but cost you nowhere near it.

 

Speakers first.

 

You’ve got to listen, listen, listen to as many different components as possible and the narrow down to a few choices and THEN start some critical comparisons.

But where to start? Well, what does your dad have and how do you like it? Other friends? What do local dealers have that you can listen to in the shop and then hopefully bring home to try?

Good luck and enjoy the ride! (and for my two cents you can get a great system for a lot less than you’ve budgeted!)

 

Congrats dude! Have fun, follow the excellent advice above regarding auditioning, and yes start with speakers. Decide what size and form factor you want, what finishes look good to you, and then I'd budget around 50% of your outlay for speakers.

I'd also personally advise sticking with an MM cart with your budget range, again that's just my opinion.
You can get a very nice €200-300 MM cart and will have an easier time finding a good preamp (especially if built into an integrated amp), whereas I think you need to spend at least €500 or so to get into MC carts.

This is a very fun time for you, take your time and enjoy the journey!

 

Hi H.L.
There are lots of options out there, but your budget will allow you to have a very nice system, whether you buy new or used. You might also consider DIY for your speakers and amp, if you have the time and interest. You can get excellent value that way, IMO.
As for the Clearaudio Concept, I just got mine, and I love it. It looks great and sounds better. I haven’t listened to a CD since I got it because it just sounds amazing. I have the MM and am very satisfied, but if you can stretch your funds to do it, the consensus is the MC cartridge is the best option. As for footfalls being a problem, I have wooden floors and haven’t had a problem. Those who have had problems this way have seemed to solve them with a wall-mounted shelf.
Best of luck.

 

I'd probably go to a couple of dealers (if possible) and get reccomendations and then go home and do some research online. You may find that a pardicular component has some quirks or there are much better ones in the proce class. With your reccomendations and research you should be able to go back and purchase your system with confidence.

 

The lads at Savins in Limerick are sound, and have a nice demo room.
Also, check out richer sounds on boardies.ie, they'll give you a good "boardies deal" when you are spending that kind of money.

 

I will echo other's suggestion to try and audition as many systems as possible, in order to hear for yourself, before starting to spend money... It is similar to asking what alcoholic beverage should I drink or what food tastes the best. You are doing the correct thing in trying to find the type of gear that sounds best to you, the more you can narrow it down prior to spending your money, the happier you will be in the long run.

 

I agree with auditioning as many systems as you can. Don't be pressured into buying something until you are 100% sure it's what you want, take your time. Take music you are familiar with to demo at listening sessions. Don't go to large on your speakers, they may over power your room and not sound good. When you think you have settled on a piece or system think it over for a few days, is this the right piece/system, is it the right price and then schedule one last listen session before purchasing. Also listen at different volumes and different genres when listening to a system. You'll want something that sounds good at all volumes but some really fall apart at low volumes and others fall apart at high volume. Let the sales people know you're not purchasing today and gathering ideas. If that's a problem they are not the sales person/store for you. Many are paid on commission and just try to push the most you can afford. Tell them your expectations. Also, google reviews and watch youtube videos of the pieces you pick. Good luck and enjoy the process. If you get stressed take some time off from your search. With that budget you should be able to get a very good system you'll be happy with for years.

 

You have a dealer close to you who sells Rega and Pro-Ject, a good way to find out if you and your dealer are in harmony is to ask to hear what they consider to be their best sounding turntable based system for, or near your budget.

You ask ten people for advice and you'll get many different opinions.

See if you can hear a Rega Planar 3 versus a Rega Planar 6 with the same cartridge. Very quickly you will know if you need a better turntable. Most of the improvements are musical, if you think that the music coming off the more expensive turntable is better, then no amp or speakers can bring the lesser source up to that level.

Your money, your system, but a good dealer should be able to put together a system that will allow you to enjoy any record, or style of music you choose to play.

Don't worry too much about mm / mc cartridges and cables at this stage, if you are losing valuable musical information at the source and with vinyl the differences can be large, it is gone forever.

If the dealers best system doesn't blow you away, try another dealer.....

Happy listening!

Edit. I haven't heard the Clearaudio turntable and am not saying the Rega Planar 6 (or 3) is better, simply that it is good to hear how a turntable gives you better music. Buying s/h should get you a significantly better source, amp and speakers. Choices, choices, choices.