Agree - I actually prefer the Yardbirds material when played by Aerosmith, and the ‘Stones were versatile, covering blues, country blues, soul, reggae, pretty well. Point above had been contrasting Geffen’s approach to Aerosmith (insisting on song doctors, Kalodner’s decisive away) and Neil Young (where they put the records out, but then sued him coz they weren’t “characteristic”’of his work). Maybe the difference was just that even if the band had some reservations (Joe Perry perhaps the most vocal), after the commercial failure of Done With Mirrors, not only was the label insistent, but Aerosmith were ultimately themselves quite open to being svengalied to chart success.
Yeah I know I sort of introduced a left turn.. Neil Young was really well managed throughout his career with Elliott Roberts...(Think I'm getting the name right there) Neil was very prolific and I believe was always in good shape financially, never in a position to be bent over a barrel by a record company.
good point … young likely hasn’t squandered his wealth on coke like the Toxic Twins and importantly, never had a particular desire to be commercially huge in the first place (the opposite, in fact, a la The Ditch trilogy). So Davey Geffen had two pretty different fish in his hands. I watched the 2012 Geffen documentary news only a few months ago - obviously it was quasi-authorized and a near hagiography, but it was interesting to learn how he he cut his teeth with the SoCal folk rock movement in the 70s, partnered with Elliot Roberts, which must have driven his signing of Neil Young, whilst the younger A&R folks he hired like Kalodner and Zutaut who drove the bigger, more contemporary successes like Aerosmith and GnR.
After Guns n' Roses, Aerosmith were the next band I got into as a 10 year old in the late 80s. I still don't know the 70s stuff very well, but after reading about Pump I thought I'd give it a listen...for the first time in a very long time. And...it's sounds great! It rocks, but has a real groove and is well-balanced - not too many ballads... As I think someone up-thread said, 1989 was a really interesting year for guitar music - Faith No More, Nine Inch Nails and Nirvana emerged, while established acts re-found their mojos after going missing for much of the decade - Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Aerosmith...and AC/DC would join in the following year...
Donna Summer and John and Yoko are two examples of Geffen artists who came and went rather quickly.Even Elton John's first go at The Fox album was rejected by Geffen. It was Geffen's idea to bring back Bernie full time and his early seventies band into the fold after two albums that probably didn't sell very much.
Lennon helped make the label financially in its early years - his murder suddenly pushed Double Fantasy sales into the stratosphere. A sad windfall - I’m sure they’d rather have had more content from him. Geffen was a ferociously driven guy, but was smart enough to recognise it was necessary to, and he was willing to, back his A+R lieutenants in the market once he recognized his own finger was no longer on the zeitgeistic musical pulse of the 80s.
I'll have to see that documentary... Neil gave Roberts some pretty big Kudos in his R&R hall of fame acceptance speech.
It’s worth a watch - as I say, a bit of a hagiography, and for all I know, was funded by David Geffen, but interesting nonetheless. Spends more time on his Laurel Canyon 70s and not so much on Aerosmith, GnR or Nirvana, unfortunately, but that’s because it focuses on David Geffen the man, not the Geffen label, and thus, focuses on those artists he was closest to (and he obviously was big end of level label boss in the 80s, not an A+R dude). It covers the Neil Young suit, but somewhat superficially, and what you don’t get a true sense of is what a hard **** he must have been as a business man. Elliot Roberts is a regular talking head in the documentary. This from wiki … Young called him "the greatest manager of all time", and in his autobiography wrote of him: "Because I tend to avoid the confrontations and delivering bad news, I am not good at doing any of that. Elliot is. He knows how to communicate where I don't."[8] Roberts himself said: "I think I'm tough. Have you ever met a guy in my position who thought he was a *****? I'm tough, but I'm fair. No, I think I'm way tough, and I don't think I'm fair at all. Fairness comes into the equation sometimes, but when I deal with Neil for Neil, I don't care what's fair — I only care what Neil wants. Not what's fair.”
Not really. Some tours from the eighties were financially bad for Neil. The "Trans" tour was very expensive because of the complex staging and did not get much revenue, the same goes for the Shocking Pinks tour, the Old Ways tour and the Landing on Water Tour. After the Geffen lawsuit, Neil also got only half the money initially accorded for each album. He didn't go BROKE, but he wasn't also in a comfortable place.
Somewhat off topic, but I was on a long drive yesterday and listening to 80's radio. A song I heard a billion times came on, which until yesterday I thought was called "Whatever you want I'll give to you" or something like it by what I thought was a one hit wonder. I had no idea that this was actually "The Flame" by Cheap Trick. I know it was huge but the 80's power ballad didn't serve every band very well...totally dated and uncharacteristic. This is the same group that wrote "He's a Whore?"
The band didn’t write or really want to do it. They were given 2 choices and they thought this sounded the most like them. The other choice was “look away” which became a huge hit for Chicago
I wasn't saying I thought Neil always made a killing and that he didn't have financial ups and downs...Just saying he wasn't ever in a position to be bent over a barrel, and was well managed.
Pandora's Box From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Released November 19, 1991 Pandora's Box is a compilation album, released on November 19, 1991 by Aerosmith. Issued by Columbia Records to capitalise on the band's newfound success with Geffen, the box set consists of three discs that cover Aerosmith's output from the 1970s and early 1980s. Alongside alternate versions, previously unreleased songs, live renditions and remixes, Pandora's Box features previously released studio material. The original issue was as a long cardboard-box, containing three CDs (each in its own jewel-case, with inserts) and booklet that detailed the tracks and had comments from the band members. Later issues did away with the outer box, utilising a cardboard slipcase, but reproduced the booklet in 'CD-size'. The cover version of "Helter Skelter" is Aerosmith's third commercially released Beatles cover (after "Come Together" from the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band soundtrack and "I'm Down" from Permanent Vacation), despite being the first they recorded. Track listing Disc one No. Title Writer(s) Length 1. "When I Needed You" (Steven Tyler, pre-Aerosmith, with the band The Strangeurs/Chain Reaction) Barry Shapiro, Steven Tallarico, Don Solomon, Alan Strohmayer, Peter Stahl 2:34 2. "Make It" (from Aerosmith, with false start, 1973) Steven Tyler 3:45 3. "Movin' Out" (previously unreleased alternate version from the Aerosmith sessions) Tyler, Joe Perry 5:42 4. "One Way Street" (from Aerosmith) Tyler 6:59 5. "On the Road Again" (previously unreleased song from the Aerosmith sessions) John Sebastian[5] 3:36 6. "Mama Kin" (from Aerosmith) Tyler 4:25 7. "Same Old Song and Dance" (from Get Your Wings, 1974) Tyler, Perry 3:53 8. "Train Kept A-Rollin'" (from Get Your Wings) Tiny Bradshaw, Howard Kay, Lois Mann 5:33 9. "Seasons of Wither" (from Get Your Wings) Tyler 5:39 10. "Write Me a Letter" (previously unreleased live version) Tyler 4:18 11. "Dream On" (from Aerosmith) Tyler 4:25 12. "Pandora's Box" (from Get Your Wings) Tyler, Joey Kramer 5:42 13. "Rattlesnake Shake" (previously unreleased live radio broadcast aired on WKRQ, Cincinnati) Peter Green 10:28 14. "Walkin' the Dog" (previously unreleased live radio broadcast aired on WKRQ, Cincinnati) Rufus Thomas 3:13 15. "Lord of the Thighs" (previously unreleased live version from Texxas Jam, Cottonbowl, Dallas, July 4, 1978) Tyler 7:13 Disc two No. Title Writer(s) Length 1. "Toys in the Attic" (from Toys in the Attic, 1975) Tyler, Perry 3:05 2. "Round and Round" (from Toys in the Attic) Tyler, Brad Whitford 5:02 3. "Krawhitham" (from the Draw the Line sessions, 1977) Kramer, Whitford, Tom Hamilton 3:59 4. "You See Me Crying" (from Toys in the Attic) Tyler, Don Solomon 5:12 5. "Sweet Emotion" (from Toys in the Attic) Tyler, Hamilton 4:34 6. "No More No More" (from Toys in the Attic) Tyler, Perry 4:33 7. "Walk This Way" (from Toys in the Attic) Tyler, Perry 3:40 8. "I Wanna Know Why" (previously unreleased live version from Texxas Jam, Cottonbowl, Dallas, 1978-07-04) Tyler, Perry 3:04 9. "Big Ten-Inch Record" (previously unreleased live version from Texxas Jam, Cottonbowl, Dallas, 1978-07-04) Fred Weismantel 4:01 10. "Rats in the Cellar" (From Rocks, 1976) Tyler, Perry 4:06 11. "Last Child" (remix of the original version from Rocks) Tyler, Whitford 3:52 12. "All Your Love" (previously unreleased song. Recorded at the Cenacle, Armonk, New York, May 1977) Otis Rush 5:27 13. "Soul Saver" (previously unreleased rehearsal from the Toys in the Attic sessions) Tyler, Whitford 0:53 14. "Nobody's Fault" (from Rocks) Tyler, Whitford 4:22 15. "Lick and a Promise" (from Rocks) Tyler, Perry 3:05 16. "Adam's Apple" (previously unreleased live version recorded on tour in Indianapolis, Indiana, 1977-07-04) Tyler 4:48 17. "Draw the Line" (remix of the original version from Draw the Line, 1977) Tyler, Perry 3:43 18. "Critical Mass" (from Draw the Line) Tyler, Hamilton, Jack Douglas 4:51 Disc three No. Title Writer(s) Length 1. "Kings and Queens" (from Classics Live, 1986) Tyler, Hamilton, Whitford, Kramer, Douglas 5:33 2. "Milkcow Blues" (from Draw the Line) Kokomo Arnold 4:15 3. "I Live in Connecticut" (previously unreleased rehearsal of "Three Mile Smile" from the Night in the Ruts sessions, 1979) Tyler, Perry 0:56 4. "Three Mile Smile" (from Night in the Ruts) Tyler, Perry 3:45 5. "Let It Slide" (previously unreleased rehearsal of "Cheese Cake" from the Night in the Ruts sessions) Tyler, Perry 2:55 6. "Cheese Cake" (from Night in the Ruts) Tyler, Perry 4:16 7. "Bone to Bone (Coney Island White Fish Boy)" (from Night in the Ruts) Tyler, Perry 3:01 8. "No Surprize" (from Night in the Ruts) Tyler, Perry 4:27 9. "Come Together" (from the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band soundtrack, 1978) John Lennon, Paul McCartney 3:46 10. "Downtown Charlie" (previously unreleased song from the Night in the Ruts sessions) Aerosmith 2:34 11. "Sharpshooter" (from the album Whitford/St. Holmes, 1981) Whitford, Derek St. Holmes 5:32 12. "**** House Shuffle" (previously unreleased rehearsal) Perry 0:36 13. "South Station Blues" (from the album I've Got the Rock'n'Rolls Again by The Joe Perry Project, 1981) Perry 4:11 14. "Riff & Roll" (previously unreleased song from the Rock in a Hard Place sessions, 1981–82) Tyler, Jimmy Crespo 3:18 15. "Jailbait" (from Rock in a Hard Place, 1982) Tyler, Crespo 4:40 16. "Major Barbara" (previously unreleased alternate version, original version on Classics Live) Tyler 5:06 17. "Chip Away the Stone" (previously unreleased alternate version, studio version on Gems, 1988) Tyler, Perry, Richard Supa 4:07 18. "Helter Skelter" (previously unreleased song from the Toys in the Attic sessions) Lennon, McCartney 3:16 19. "Back in the Saddle" (from Rocks) Tyler, Perry 4:49 20. "Circle Jerk" (previously unreleased instrumental, not listed) Whitford 3:44
Pandora's Box When I Needed You Influenced by psychedelic music mostly British to my ears. Yardbirds and even some obscure psych bands. Sounds a little amateurish but you can hear the potential there regardless of what to come from Steven. Nice drone ditty. Make It Not much different from the final version except for the false start. It would not have messed the song up that much for me but in the end it was taken out. In fact, the more I listen to it, the looseness is a cool way to start off. No mention of the false start in the box set notes. Movin’ Out A nifty version of the song. Looser sounding which fits the song OK with me. On The Road Again Decent cover of the Lovin’ Spoonful song. Fits the Aerosmith style. “Unknown” credited in the box set notes but written by John Sebastian. Not sure how that happened. Write Me A Letter Great live version of this rocking track. Not sure where it was recorded. Rattlesnake Shake Heart on sleeve intro from Steven. It is a fine cover of the Peter Green song. Some fine jams on it that harken to The Yardbirds. Walkin’ The Dog Another great live radio broadcast cut from the WKRQ broadcast. Lord of the Thighs Live cut from the Texxas Jam. Really grooves along with nice dynamic changes that are different from the studio version. Krawhitham Hard edged instrumental in E. Whole tone scale is used for the riff. Who the hell do you think you are guys….Debussy? Figures Whitford came up with this one. Berklee Prof-Mr. Whitford can you play me an E Whole Tone Scale? I Wanna Know Why and Big Ten Inch Record More from the Texxas Jam show. It’s all good for me. Last Child Remix of this great song. The vocals are higher in the mix. All Your Love Cool version of this Otis Rush song. Steven has the best blues chops in the band IMO. The rhythmic shift brings it into hard rock territory even more due to the contrast….slow to fast even more than the original. The variation of the main riff is a winner. Soul Saver Boy you can tell this is Whitford song. Heavier than most of what they do. Damn near sounds like Black Sabbath at some points. You can hear the spark of Nobody’s Fault in the riffs. Actually, made heavier in the verse riff on the final cut of Nobody’s Fault. Adams Apple Great live version from 1977. The opening Perry riff is one for the record books, but I probably have already said that. Joe’s solo is not as hot as the studio version but that is usually the case….usually. Steven messes up the lyrics and lowers the song a notch or so for me. Draw The Line Remix that is an interesting take on the centered (mono ?) version on the album. I like the original more. I Live in Connecticut The Three Mile Smile riff. Let It Slide Jam on Cheese Cake. Not hard to figure out how they came up with the name. Interesting run through though. Downtown Charlie I wonder if Paul Westerberg heard this one. He does not owe them I suppose. Anyway, it is a hard edged boogie. Joey could be tighter though. S**t House Shuffle What the JPP song would sound like played by Aerosmith. Not vastly different though. Riff and Roll A fine Motown/Stones influenced song from the RIAHP album sessions. With a little work it would have been great, but it does not really fit with the rest of the album. Major Barbra Different version from the Classics Live set. Little slower than the previous version. Still a decent song but nothing earth shattering. An OK R and B based song. Chip Away The Stone Different mix of this Supa song. I still don’t really like it. Helter Skelter Fine cover of this Beatles song. You can tell where thy got the intro for Jailbait from this song. This was done around the Toys sessions though. Circle Jerk A hard edged boogie from Brad. It could have been a real winner if they had worked on it. Mostly power chord riffage though. Nothing really unique other than the weird Whitford chord changes. An outstanding box set. I have owned it since it was released and still listen to it now and then. How about you?
Here is the Pandora's Box review from Allmusic. They give it 4 stars. Aerosmith's 1991 three-CD box set Pandora's Box has just about everything you could possibly want: hits, demos, rarities, live material, key album tracks, and a booklet packed with classic photos, a bio, and the bandmembers' remembrances of all the tracks. Since the set was released by Columbia, none of their material from the mid-'80s through the early-'90s is featured (Done With Mirrors, Permanent Vacation, and Pump). But the '70s was when this legendary band was at their most raw and rocking best, and Pandora's Box is a superb overview of the group's work from their first self-titled album up until 1982's Rock in a Hard Place. Also included is solo material from Joe Perry and Brad Whitford, as well as an early track from Steven Tyler when he fronted a band called Chain Reaction in the '60s. The hits will attract the casual admirer ("Dream On," "Walk This Way," "Sweet Emotion," etc.), while the more obscure selections will surely please the longtime fan ("Rattlesnake Shake," "On the Road Again," a great demo of "Movin' Out," live versions of "Write Me a Letter," "I Wanna Know Why," etc.). Aerosmith was always an album-oriented band, and such selections as "No Surprize," "Three Mile Smile," "Lick and a Promise," "No More No More," and "Seasons of Wither" often outshine the hits. By touching all the bases, Pandora's Box is an excellent package.
The only thing I don’t like about Pandora’s Box is the wide stereo remix of “Draw the Line”, which seems diffuse and weak compared to the focused power of the original mix. People wondered why that song was mixed in mono; the answer is because it works best that way.
They also released a single disc compilation of the box set called Pandora's Toys. Here is the Allmusic review of Pandora's Toys. They gave it 3 stars. The 1995 Pandora's Toys is a bit of a curious comp. Appearing four years after the box set Pandora's Box, this single disc cherry-picks 12 highlights from that three-disc box -- but instead of pulling oddities and rarities from those three discs, this has the big big hits that everybody knows ("Sweet Emotion," "Dream On," "Walk This Way," "Mama Kin") balanced with radio hits that remained staples into the mid-'90s ("Draw the Line," "Seasons of Wither") with just a couple minor alternate takes, like a live "Big Ten Inch Record" and an alternate "Chip Away the Stone," for good measure. It's not a bad listen by any means -- all 12 tracks are good -- but it's too close to a hits collection to be a true sampler of the box. All that means is that anybody looking for rarities should go to Pandora's Box, while those looking for a hard-rocking snapshot of the band's '70s peak should be satisfied with this. Pandora's Toys really did not include that many rarities. You get the unissued covers of Helter Skelter and All Your Love, the live version of Big Ten Inch Record and the alternate version of Chip Away The Stone. I think this was a limited edition release.
In addition, they also released the Big Ten Inch Sampler which was a promo sampler of the Box set and had a similar track listing to Pandora's Toys. This one does include the outtake Downtown Charlie which Pandora's Toys omits.
I really was excited to get this when it was released and thought the outtake covers of On The Road Again, All Your Love and Helter Skelter were cool. I also dug the live versions of some of the songs which did not appear on Live Bootleg and Classics Live 1 & 2 like Write Me A Letter, Rattlsnake Shake, Walking The Dog and Adam's Apple for example. It would have been nice to get more live tracks. I might have arranged it differently and had a complete disc of just live tracks from over that years and maybe grouped the outtakes together. It is good overview but I felt they dropped the ball by not including Sick As A Dog, Lightning Strikes and the Joe Perry Project version of Let The Music Do The Talking. It also missed a few personal favorites like S.O.S (Too Bad), Combination, Get The Lead Out and Sight For Sore Eyes.
