Albums on which the producer was arguably more important than the band/artist

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Brainstorm, Feb 25, 2021.

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  1. Jon-A

    Jon-A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I think The Beatles are a good example of the producer/artist debate. Sure, they had some pretty good songwriting/performance chops - but a lot of what sets their recordings apart from their contemporaries is the brilliant sound of them, as well as the many deft production touches. Especially Sgt. Pepper. I'm not much of a Beatles fan, but I love listening to those albums because of how they sound. (And I think Let It Be, without Martin, is lame). As an example, listen to the Strawberry Fields demos. Pretty unremarkable - there's hardly a song in there. But with the fantastic production, it's a contender for Best Single Ever. I might not go so far as to suggest George Martin was more important than the Beatles - but he was an absolutely essential part of the equation.
     
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  2. Goldtop33

    Goldtop33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    sounds like Ace Played nothing on this album. A kiss album without Ace isn’t a Kiss album.
    a total Ezrin project that sounds just like a bad Cooper record.
    imo Kiss’ worst studio album until Unmasked
     
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  3. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    No one claims GM didn't contribute to "Pepper's", but to claim he was more important than the band makes no sense.

    Also, don't forget that GM often worked mainly to facilitate what the band asked him to do.

    He helped translate the sounds in their heads. That makes him useful but not remotely as important, much less more...
     
  4. MOE DOLLAZ

    MOE DOLLAZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Hazard County
    the only bad song on that album is God of Thunder
     
  5. PopularChuck

    PopularChuck Senior Member

    Location:
    Bay Area
    I'd heard / read that that he also kept the songs short and tight and is a big reason the running time came in at around 30 minutes... He gave it more a of a "punk" vibe in that regard.

    But it's possible I've mis-remembered
     
  6. DolphinsIntheJacuzzi

    DolphinsIntheJacuzzi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I get what you're saying, and you're right to an extent. But the OP didn't specify that the producer had to be singularly important, simply more important than the artist in question on that particular album.

    That leaves a lot of leeway. So, taking that at face value, any project in which the producer was responsible for 51% or more of the impact or success of the album, critically or commerically, would qualify.

    So, by that rubric, Lanois and Eno could qualify. And Eno, in particular, could certainly be a prime candidate on any number of albums, as he was so hands on, even when it came to song composition and arrangement. Even a legend like Bowie leaned heavily on Eno's ideas with the Berlin Trilogy.

    And I think that is a more reasonable interpretation of the OP's topic. Otherwise, as you noted, we would be talking strictly about svengalis, and we could have closed the thread several pages ago. YMMV.
     
  7. DolphinsIntheJacuzzi

    DolphinsIntheJacuzzi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I thought I was the only one who felt this way. With the exception of a few songs ("God of Thunder," "Detroit Rock City," "Shout It Out Loud"), Destroyer is godawful. Children's choirs and string sections on a KISS album?! GTFO. More Ace, less BS.
     
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  8. Goldtop33

    Goldtop33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Each his own. One could argue DRC is the only good song (KOTNW being a cover)
    Destroyer is all filler without any of the blues-rock which is the bands forte. Lightweight Sing song anthems from Paul and weirdo stuff from Gene
     
  9. Trixmay 988

    Trixmay 988 Demere's Dreams

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    But ultimately it was The Beatles who made the arrangements, rarely Martin. That's a huge part of what makes a song a song.
    And man, I couldn't disagree more with the Strawberry Fields demos! I think they're beautiful and melodic.
     
  10. apb

    apb Game on!

    Location:
    DC
    Bill Laswell on Album by Public Image Ltd. The demos that Johnny made with his 84-85 touring band that were included in the super deluxe edition sound totally limp. Laswell, along with some inspired guest spots, transformed the songs and made them HUGE.
     
  11. MrCJF

    MrCJF Best served with coffee and cake.

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    "She's Leaving Home" was the only song that had a string arrangement not by George Martin (leaving out the Let It Be album).

    Martin and his engineering team's work with "found sounds" on his pre-Beatles novelty/comedy records is what enabled The Beatles to experiment with those sounds, his advice to John and Paul to learn the piano if they were serious about songwriting is important to the development of the band beyond the Chuck Berry/Buddy Holly inspired rock and roll base they started with. It's a great example of a a producer - artist partnership based on mutual respect.
     
  12. lwh1

    lwh1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, England
    Tony Visconti producing 'Indiscreet' by Sparks.
    I give him credit for some good arrangements but he reduced the band members contributions. The story is that the guys weren't happy about it and according to an old source of mine, neither were Island. Visconti claims that one of the band complained to Muff Winwood about their diminishing roles, but this has been denied by the others.
     
  13. DolphinsIntheJacuzzi

    DolphinsIntheJacuzzi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I like "God of Thunder," but I can see it being "weirdo stuff from Gene" (even though Paul wrote the song). But no love for "Shout It Out Loud?"
     
  14. Goldtop33

    Goldtop33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I love GOT on Alive II - but it just drags along on Destroyer. Shout it Out Loud I’m just so burned out on I have no desire to hear it again.
     
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  15. mtvgeneration

    mtvgeneration Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA
    Pink on Can't Take Me Home is more LA Reid's LaFace version of Britney Spears than Pink. "Most Girls," for example, is not a song I can imagine Pink doing otherwise.
     
  16. Malibu John

    Malibu John Forum Resident

  17. Frip

    Frip Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Think this is more about Ron and Russell wanting to move away from guitar, bass, drums. The rest of the band may well have been unhappy, but I don't think that was Visconti's fault. Not that his contribution to the album isn't significant.
     
  18. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block

    Charles Stepney, arranger and producer of Rotary Connection’s self titled first album . An incredible mix of psychedelia, soul, rock, sound collage etc.


     
  19. Quakerism

    Quakerism Lean into what frightens you.

    Location:
    Rural Pennsylvania
    Charlie Rich’s - Behind Closed Doors

    Producer - Billy Sherrill
    Pig Robbins on piano not Rich.
    Changed some of the lyrics to make it more suggestive.
     
  20. Michael Macrone

    Michael Macrone Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Which reminds me of this David Alexrod production by "The Electric Prunes":
     
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  21. Glenn Christense

    Glenn Christense Foremost Beatles expert... on my block

    And what’s interesting is that they were released only a month apart in 1968.
     
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  22. Adagio

    Adagio Forum Resident

    Was just going to enter the same. I didn't mind the music on Chicago "17" but the sound was definitely more David Foster and less traditional Chicago
     
  23. lwh1

    lwh1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, England
    But they didn't. They cleared off back to the States and created another album ('Big Beat') in exactly the same group format. I'm not saying it was Visconti's fault. Like I said, he is a talented arranger and did create some excellent arrangements (for example, the first half of 'Hospitality On Parade' is superb - hummed vocals, synth, pounding piano, bass and Stylophone). It just seemed to be (especially at that time) less Sparks and more Visconti, but still a fine album Frip.
     
  24. Devotional

    Devotional Senior Member

    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Primal Scream’s Screamadelica.
     
  25. Chemically altered

    Chemically altered Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ukraine in Spirit
    This is the winner. Close thread.
     
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