Albums on which the producer was arguably more important than the band/artist

Quincy Jones only co-wrote one song on Thriller, PYT.

 

That must be in error. There’s never been any question that Rod Tenperton wrote “Thriller”.

Ahh, OK. That makes sense.

 

Sorry meant "Best It." Not sure why you're deflecting about songwriting credits though anyway?

This thread is about the producer being (arguably) more important than the artist. That's not really the case here. Equal, probably but not more.

 

It wasn't a question. It was an error - meant "Beat It.

See reply above. Again, goes back to why there's all this nitpicking about songwriting credits.

 

Zappa produced the eleventh GFR studio album, way past the band’s prime (not the debut album). Terry Knight was both manager and producer for their first five albums when, despite contempt from the critics, they were selling out stadiums.

 

Have we had The Unforgettable Fire by U2 - two producers transforming a band's sound in a way that made them (band and producers) the hot ticket for the rest of the decade.

 

It's said (so long ago that I can't temember where) that when Jackson played his demos to Jones, Quincy told him they weren't good enough. Jackson came back to the next meeting with demos for Beat It and Billy Jean.

Quincy Jones influence diminished with each of the three albums. He was way more important on Off The Wall , they were equal partners for Thriller, he had less influence on Bad. That's my reading of the relationship.

Good producers are mentors, the best artists will eventually outgrow them. I think both Quincy Jones and Berry Gordy knew that when working with Michael Jackson.

 

I think Hysteria was the one where he was really down in the bunker as a 6th member of the band, striving to create a rock album that sounded like no other.

I agree that he certainly left his mark on anyone he worked with but my opinion is that this one was a game changer.

 

Off the top of my head...

Bob Ezrin (and his engineer) for the first few Warner Brothers Alice Cooper albums. They were pretty chronic before they met him.

Bill Botrell for Sheryl Crow's Tuesday Night Music Club. The fact that he was able to manage the sessions so well. And transform a terrible start to a career (and so many disparate songwriting talents) into one of the definitive albums of the 90's. Well. That's a great producer.

John Bain and the first Black Sabbath album. He knew exactly how to record an out of tune band with no money. They had maybe a couple of hours to spare on their way to Hamburg. If Bain didn't work with Sabbath we might not ever have heard from them again.

 

Exile on main ST...Jimmy Miller..and to finish the álbum..they Need other 15 musicians

 

In researching this article, I wrote and didn't get published (the company went defunct) I was amazed that Quincy took time off at Marlon Brando's during the recording of Bad because he flipped his lid. The Quincy Jones sound and style dissipated with the years and by 1995, you couldn't tell him apart from most talented producers.

 

Quincy must have been making Back on the Block not long after this period. Star studded is an understatement, but no MJ.

Back on the Block - Wikipedia

 

I don't think U2's "transformation" in 1984 was the sole reason they became big.

They were already clearly a band on the rise before "Unforgettable Fire".

"War" sold pretty well, and "Under a Blood Red Sky" did a lot to elevate their status, especially since MTV played bits of it endlessly.

IMO, even if Lanois and Eno never worked with the band, U2 were going to become huge...

 

They were big, but they weren't filling stadiums. Live Aid also helped! Eno and Lanois became quite a double act from that album on.

 

Yeah, I know U2 weren't U2!!! pre-1984, but my point is that they were clearly on the rise.

I remember how excited my classmates were for the 1984 tour, and those tickets went on sale before "Fire" hit the shelves.

Obviously the success of "Fire" helped too, but I just reacted to the idea that U2 needed Eno/Lanois to become U2!!! - I disagree with that.

Maybe I misinterpreted your post, but it left me with the impression that they were a struggling band who only found a big audience because of their producers.

On that I can't agree. I firmly believe U2 would've been U2!!! no matter who produced them...

 

He almost ruined Heartbeat City in my opinion.

 

I can't disagree with that!

 

There would be no Hysteria without Lange. According to Joe Elliott the band were too distraught after Rick Allen lost his arm to consider going on. When Rick said he wanted to drum again the band thought it was the drugs talking (he was on massive amounts of opiates in the first months after surgery).

It was Lange who kept up with Rick through his recovery in hospital and plotted how they could construct a drum kit he could use with one arm It was key to Rick's mental will to recover, and more than likely saved the band.

 

I agree that U2 were big and getting bigger, but the sound on The Unforgettable Fire is such a leap from the first three that it sounds like a different band. I remember hearing the title track on the radio and stoping in my tracks. U2 had been a bir "meh" to me before that. Cool kids in the sixth form seemed to like them but I wasn't that enamoured with them.

 

Neither statement is true. Most people did not give a crap about Rubin until Cash died, and the "Hurt" video got popular. He's a great producer, but that still doesn't make him as or more important than Slayer or Cash.

 

I think Jackson gets full credit for Beat It too. My point about songwriting is that if the artist doesn't write the song he may be less involved in them besides singing, than the producer. Not always the case as Elvis, Sinatra, Madonna and Waylon Jennings are examples where they were a big part of more than just singing songs they didn't write. However, with Quincy being a big named producer and 5 of 9 songs not written by Jackson and three of those being cowrote by Jones with someone else, it seems logical.

 

MJ is a better example when it was the right combination of artist and producer.

With Madonna, there could've been an example with Stephen Bray. He obviously had huge input on shaping her sound. Then he found a Madonna clone to prove the point. The song was a hit, but Madonna moved in with other producers.

Here with Quincy Jones, as mentioned, he felt that his status was secure enough to add his touch to anybody. After Tevin Campbell, he was much in demand.

 

I think that from an artistic standpoint, Lanois and Eno were very important. But, I’m not sure about making them a hot ticket. As I remember it, War was huge and Unforgettable Fire was actually a commercial disappointment. Maybe I’m remembering incorrectly.

 

Unrelated to this thread - but coincidental - I've been working through the U2 discography.

I'm on "War" so maybe I'll change my mind when I get to "Fire" but I don't think they changed that much with their fourth album.

They always had moody/atmospheric songs going back to "Boy".

Eno/Lanois massaged the material in a way that was somewhat different than what Lillywhite did on the 1st 3 but I see it was the band's evolution, not so much a revolution prompted by the producers...

 

That's not how I remember it. And - an album's sales are irrelevant to the issue here.