Any A7 owners out there? What hook up wire between crossover and speaker clips do you recommend? Is it solid, or stranded, tinned copper or pure copper, and what gauge fits into those tiny clip holes? Do you solder the wires onto the speaker or use clamp-on pins, and if the later, which, where bought, and what gauge? Do you agree or disagree that a single sold core copper wire makes an adverse effect on the sound?
I tried everything. Silver, Stranded, solid, tinned & OCC. My crossovers are out of the cabinets so, I used tinned OFC Copper inside & out in my basement speakers. My Main, I use stranded silver to my Tweeters & Horns & my Base unit I use OCC stranded Copper. Using a combo of connecters & bare wire, that works for me. Also, different gauge wires, from 12 to 18. Can I hear the difference? Not @ 62 years old.
Not that the SHF isn't great, but there are some forums out there catering to the vintage JBL/Altec scene. I'd think you'd get more (and hopefully better) advice at one of those?
I use only the finest 21.99/100' RCA 16-Gauge speaker wire from Amazon. A problem that I'll never have... RCA AH16100SR 100 Ft. 16-Gauge Speaker Wire, List Price: $21.99, Sale Price: $16.11 & FREE Shipping on orders over $25.00 shipped by Amazon. Details & FREE Returns You Save: 27% But, I do not use Altec crossovers. I use crossovers from ALK Engineering. This is one of the custom AP12-500 ALK crossovers for the A7's. There is a 2nd crossover that routs anything above 6-kHz. to the JBL super-tweeters.
Lansing Heritage Forums I know there are people here that run them, but that forum has 200k posts mostly specific/related to Altec gear.
You can’t fit 16 gauge wire into the small clip holes of Altec speakers so do you cut 70% off and twist what is left into a smaller bit that will fit?
Lansing Heritage Forums does have a large amount of posts but there are things to consider... It spans the bredth of anything and everything that is/was Lansing. Individual items, like A7's only represent a tiny fraction of the posts in the forum. I have read most of the A7 related posts and do not necessarily agree with the information that is contained in them. For example, the consensus is that Altec speakers like the Model 19's are superior than the A7's in a home audio environment. My position is that they are not. And by a large margin, having also owned the Model 19's. Others on our forum agree with this also.
It goes to show that even high end commercial speakers did not require heavy gauge wire. That is a home audio thing. The holes are probably the size of 18-Gauge lamp cord, which was often used for speaker wire.
Not that there is anything wrong with other perspectives... Given that the OP owns a Garrard 301 turntable, Leben amplifiers and "Was member of the Oregon Triode Society in 90's", I think it can be assumed that the OP has a general familiarity with audio and search engines. He may have posed his question here because he felt that he might receive some answers? Incidentally, the OP has Auditorium-23 speakers, which in part, get their inspiration from WE and early Altec engineering. in fact, the German Auditorium-23 website has a link to an Altec page within their site that they have created. Here is a photo from those pages. I link to other sources (see above) that have information that supports the subject under discussion. I just think that this statement of yours makes some definite unsubstantiated suppositions. Before joining the forum, I came across it and other forums in search of information myself. Naturally, as an Altec owner and fanboy of a half century, I used the Lansing Heritage site myself. No objections for site recommendations. I recommend other sites myself quite frequently. Your recommendations to the OP strikes me as "grass is greener" approach, which I feel is completely unfounded and unnecessary. On top of that, I find it mostly inaccurate. I am finding 598 posts that specifically mention "Altec A7". There are other posts that mention Altec or JBL (509 JBL threads). There are posts that mention "A7" specifically, though there are other speakers out there with an "A7" designation, such as the Polk RTi series A7. On top of these, various aspects of Altec's and A7's are discussed in posts within threads that don't specifically mention either, because the the thread itself is already a discussion on the subject matter. Overall, there is a hell of a lot of knowledge and information contained in the Hardware forums. Those who post here tend to be knowledgeable in audio and in the subject area that they post in. For example, if I wanted to find information on "aperiodic enclosures", no doubt I would find some valuable information on this forum (at least 48 references of them).
If I am the "OP", then thanks for supporting my question. Hope you are still enjoying your Altec's. By the way, system has changed some since Loricraft Garrard 301 and Leben phono and integrated. Just because you mentioned it ;-) ... I had Ray Clark of Classic Turntable Company turn my old 301 into his Classic 301 Reference. The previously flexible chassis is now CNC-machined from solid brass, same platter, new guts, motor rebuilt, bearing replaced with his improved version and power supply. The plinth is Panzerholtz with a lovely veneer sitting on four Townsend pods, atop a Reed 5A pivoted tangential tracking tonearm. The cartridge is a Phasemation PP2000 MC, into a pair of Phasemation T2000 SUT's, from there into the Ypsilon VPS100 phono stage, power is Ayon Spitfire SET integrated and now Altec A7 speakers. The speaker cables are the Auditorium-23's, the power cables are from Dave at ZenWave Audio and the power supply dedicated from the circuit breaker, Furutech gold-plated pure copper sockets and plugs. I am expecting a pair of two-way Hiraga crossovers with select NOS caps from Pete Riggle in June, and want to wire them up cleanly to the speakers. Problem is that the speakers connect by clips with small holes and I am wondering if smaller wire works or if I need to solder larger gauge wire onto them.
Yes, you are the "OP", meaning Original Poster of the thread. Which just goes to show, that you can take even outstanding products and make them better still. You are going to love your A7's. The main thing is to understand them. This is a point I brought up about the Lansing Heritage site. I find that even heavy Altec fanboys lack an understanding of what A7's are. You must have this fundamental level of understanding to understand how to correctly modify them and bring them in to high end home audio. While this might appear obvious, it certainly is not. I had my original pair if A7's built for me at age sixteen, a half century ago. I bought my new main pair back in 2013 as a lark. It was only having ideas and working with them that I began to have a far greater appreciation fro what they are and what they are capable of achieving. I am retired now but I put together a tour of my former audio room after my equipment profile, please feel free to check it out. Maybe Pete Riggle could give you some insight on the wiring? Ordinary 18-gauge copper zip-cord can easily handle 1-200 Watts. On a good day, the A7's can take 50-Watts. With a 22-Watt SET amp, you can reach bear concert SPL's. I personally would see no reason for soldering larger wires into them. With regard to the gauge of wire that is actually used in the speaker voice coil itself... "The wire gauge, often referred to by its AWG designation, is selected by a number of factors, including desired DC resistance, mass considerations, (current) power handing, and magnetic system considerations. A high-power subwoofer might use a gauge as heavy as #28 AWG, while a super tweeter might use a wire gauge as fine as #38 AWG. Fine wire is considered 34 AWG to 44 AWG. Note that with AWG, #32 AWG has twice the diameter of #38 AWG, #26 AWG is twice the diameter of #32 AWG, and so on. Every six sizes increases the current capacity by a factor of 4, and every three sizes increases the capacity by a factor of 2. Conductor material considerations aside, strength is directly proportional to the cross-sectional area of the wire." Ultimately, every ounce of current that is flowing through the speaker (drivers) themselves, is traveling through these gauge wires in the voice coils. To worry about "upgrading" connections within a speaker cabinet is mostly silly. Take a close look at the gauge of the wire used for the voice coil windings themselves, not the connecting lead wire diameter. I have read about Gene Hiraga and his Altec's many years ago. Same goes for Pete Riggle. Unfortunately, without actually hearing and experiencing their efforts, it is impossible for me to comment on them personally speaking. I did notice that there was a rather nice article written by Jeff Day for 6Moons which covered the Auditorium-23 cables. It also contained this nice graphic. I hope you have had the opportunity to read through the: Vintage vs Modern speakers thread. Among other speakers. It showcases nicely the adaptation of legacy Altec A7 speakers.
Would you kindly try inserting a stripped 26 AWG, 32 AWG and 38 AWG wire into one of the clip holes on your treble horn speaker and let me know which will slide in (unless you have a gauge that measures the hole and states it’s size, which I was hoping someone had already done when I started the thread).
I would like to assist you with this, no problem but I have retired a couple of years back and my gear is in storage. Calling @thomaskong ! We have an Altec brother in need who lives across the great pond. He is wondering what gauge wire will fit into the connectors of the A7 horn driver. Is it possible that you could assist us? I looked up a spec sheet on the 808-8A driver, which was used around 1970. Here is a link to the spec sheet on the Lansing Heritage website. This was something I never gave any thought to over the years. I never remembered seeing it in any of the specs. It is not on the Altec spec sheet I linked here. Happened across an interesting article by Jeff Day with regard to his Altec's. Does show a nice photo of one of the horns with the wires connected. "For whatever reason, the Audio Note (UK) Oto Phono SE Signature Integrated Amplifier (HERE) is such a synergistic match with the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers, that the combination has produced a level of musicality above anything I've ever experienced in my home, or any audio shows I've been to over the last decade or so. I really didn't see that one coming. Audio Note (UK) Oto Phono SE Signature Integrated Amplifier with the Audio Note (UK) CD 2.1x/II Level Two Red Book CD Player. I mentioned this happy synergy result to Peter Qvortrup (Audio Note (UK)), and Peter said, "What is truly remarkable, Jeff, is the fact that you can take a pair of 50 – 60 year old speakers and combine them with a currently made amplifier and CD player and get a result that probably beats 99% of the equipment made today, especially the speakers. If that is not an illustration of just how completely side tracked the industry has become by all manners of misconstrued ideas about what good sound really is, then I am not sure what is?" I'll tell you what, I could stop playing audio games right now with this combination of gear and live happily every after. This combination of speakers and amplification is really that good, staggeringly good, if your tastes in audio are like mine. However, just like some of you, sometimes I just can't leave things alone, no matter how good they are. Today I got the wild idea that I should try swapping the 804A high-frequency compression drivers in the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers with the 802D high-frequency compression drivers in my Altec 832A Corona loudspeakers just to hear what would happen. The Altec 804A and Altec 802D compression drivers are essentially the same design, and are shown together in Altec literature. The Altec 804A / 802D both use large diameter (1.75") aluminum ribbon edge-wound voice coils coupled to a large (2.25") aluminum diaphragm having tangential compliance. Both have a mechanical phasing plug with two exponential acoustic slots, which provides the proper phase relationship from sound emanating from the center & outer edges of the diaphragm and voice coil assembly, to give maximum high-frequency reproduction and a smooth overall response. Altec 804A compression driver diagram from an Altec brochure. Like the 803B low frequency drivers in the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers, both the Altec 804A / 802D are rated for 30W. The Altec 804A / 802D frequency response is 500Hz to 22,000Hz, voice coil diameter is 1.75", impedance is 16 Ohms, and diameter is 4.5". The primary difference is their magnets, as the 802D uses a 1.2 lbs., 15,250 Gauss magnet and the 804A uses a 13 oz. 13,000 Gauss magnet, which reflects their intended use as compression drivers for sound reinforcement in large spaces with high ambient noise levels (802D), or smaller spaces, like home listening rooms or smaller recording studios with moderate ambient noise levels (804A). The Altec 804A compression driver is optimized for loudspeakers, "... located in non-reverberant space having moderate ambient noise levels, the Altec 804A driver proves a perfect match (Such conditions would be analogous to the average listening room or smaller broadcast and recording studio)", and pressure sensitivity is rated at 109.5dB at 1W and 124.2dB at 30W. I imagine Dr. Stokowski chose the 804A compression drivers because that was the best fit for the room he listened to music in at home. "Stokowski" Altec 802D installation. Removing and replacing the 804A high-frequency compression drivers from the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers is a breeze, given I can access them from the open back of the high-frequency horn section of the loudspeaker. Removing the 802D high frequency compression drivers from the Altec 832A Corona loudspeakers is a chore, as you have to take the loudspeakers completely apart to get the compression drivers out. Dismantling 832A Corona loudspeakers is not my idea of fun, but I just had to try the 802D compression drivers in the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers! Altec 802D compression driver in the right "Stokowski" Altec loudspeaker. After getting the Altec 832A Corona loudspeakers dismantled, and removing their 802D high-frequency compression drivers, I installed them into the 804A compression drivers' place in the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers. Then I powered up the First Watt SIT-3 stereo amplifier, and the Pass Labs XP-12 preamp (I'm writing the review for the XP-12 now), and let them warm up for a bit, then gave them a listen. The SIT-3 and XP-12 combination is superb, by the way. I think a lot of guys who love tube amplification would love the SIT-3 and XP-12 combination too. They don't really sound like vacuum tube gear per se, being rather unique in their strengths, but still they convey superb musicality & sonics in a very natural presentation of the music, with no vacuum tubes to replace. There's something to be said for the inherent reliability of solid-state amplification, I say as I'm cussing my Fender Princeton vacuum tube guitar amp that made some rather impolite noises as a tube started to fail. Sigh. Ok, back on topic. If the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers, with their Duelund CAST tinned-copper crossovers based on the Hiraga circuit, were a power amplifier, I suppose they would be a classic 300B SET amplifier. They provide a musically natural, intensely beautiful presentation of the music, and an absolutely stunning midrange. They are a little soft on top, with powerful bass, although the bass doesn't go particularly deep. But that's ok, as they do this magic trick that have my ears believing I am hearing live music playing with all of its emotional impact, which is sort of the goal of this hobby for me. I was expecting that the 802D compression driver would sound a little more forward and open in comparison to 804A, perhaps lending more of a 2A3 SET character to the overall sound. I put Bireli Lagrene's Standards CD in the Audio Note (UK) CD 2.1x/II Level Two Red Book CD Player and pressed "play". My aural observations were that both the 802D and 804A compression drivers have a silky, smooth, and natural presentation, with lots of presence at live-like volume levels, and really don't sound much different from each other. Maybe a little bit, but not much. They both sound stunning, which I guess is not so bad an outcome. Altec 804A (left) and 802D (right) compression drivers. That's not what I was expecting. This is one of those cases where a quick listen just didn't tell me a lot, so I'm going to do some extended listening with a wider variety of music and see what I can pick up on. I'll also follow up by putting the Audio Note (UK) Oto Phono SE Signature Integrated Amplifier back into the system, after I finish up the review for the Pass Labs XP-12, and see if the different amplification reveals anything about differences in the compression drivers. While I'm at it, I may also try the Altec 803A low-frequency drivers from my Corona 832A loudspeakers in the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers, in place of the 803B Altec low-frequency drivers that are in them now. Some of you might remember me writing about my conversations with Keith Aschenbrenner of Auditorium 23 in Germany, way back when. Keith has impeccable taste in audio, and he told me once about how the Altec 803A low-frequency driver was his favorite Altec low-frequency driver, being more articulate and more nuanced than any of the other Altec low-frequency drivers, with the tradeoff being that they don't go quite as deep as the later 15-inch Altec drivers, like the 803B and beyond. If I remember correctly, the 803A low-frequency drivers have a lighter and stiffer cone than the 803B, or later 15-inch Altec low-frequency drivers, giving them a more articulate presentation of the frequencies below 500Hz (the crossover point). It's getting really hard to find Altec 803A low-frequency drivers in good condition, as nobody who has heard them really wants to part with them. I have a mint pair of 803A low-frequency drivers in my Altec 832A Corona loudspeakers, and they are amazing, so I get it, I wouldn't want to part with mine either. I'll have to look into taking the 803A low-frequency out of the Corona 832As, as it looks to be fairly involved given the design of Corona cabinets. Swapping drivers is a bit of a chore in the "Stokowski" Altec loudspeakers too, but it is easy to get at all the bolts holding them in place, which is not the case with the Coronas. Ok, enough blathering about audio for now, it is time for a Martini. As always, thanks for stopping by, and may the tone be with you!" Jeff has crossovers that were built by Pete Riggle.
What I am hoping for is an Altec A7 owner here with one of these: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/wire-size-gauges/6830692 So that I don’t have to spend £50 for one just to know what size hook up wire to buy.
I can understand that. But you can pick up inexpensive wire size gauges for under $10 through Amazon, $8.99 or any home improvement store. They are only a piece of metal (or plastic) with different size holes in them. I have to imagine that wire between 18 and 26 gauge would fit? I doubt if many home audio people keep things like wire gauges around Though, some wire cutters have slots that are intended to strip different specific gauges of wire. Amazon search results. Mine are like these $6.99 on Amazon. You might just buy six 1' pieces of wire 18, 20, 22, 24, 26 gauge and see what fits best. Might be handy to keep around for reference purposes? Alternately, you can use small banana plugs. This is a 4mm size. You can feed larger gauge wire into t them. They also come angled. They also have 2mm connectors.
Just use any good 18Ga wire for hook up. I prefer stranded, solid core is more susceptible to fatigue cracking. I've seen much skinnier, probably 22 or 24Ga used before in Altec gear, didn't seem to bother it. If you look at the wire in the voice coils you will understand why. Just use good quality copper wire and you will be fine. Don't obsess over things that don't make a difference, be sure to use colors that please you as that is far more important. BillWojo
I just wanted to know what size stranded wire would fit into those little holes without splaying out. So far, no one seems to know. Lots of suggestions though.
I don't recall any point in my life where I knew or measured the size of a hole that wire fits into. I would look and grab some wire that fit. I would always have 18-gauge wire and either 22 or 24 gauge wire on a small spool. That covered everything I have ever needed. I don't have a HF driver available but I bet that 18-gauge wire would fit. If not, then you can certainly use a razor blade to trim off a few strands.
Hopefully you don’t mind a request for a crossover recommendation on an A7 project. I have a pair of 825 cabinets, each with these components: 511B horn with 804A driver 803B woofer What crossovers would you recommend for these?
The holes in the terminals on the Altec 802 compression driver are 0.1" and the largest wire that will fit is 12 gauge. I would recommend using ferrules crimped to the end of your wires. These provide a clean connection with no possibility of strands of wire being where they shouldn't be. A photo of the termination of one of the wires going to my 802s is below. The wire here is stranded 12 gauge. Honestly, I would use ferrules on all speaker connections including the binding posts on the back of speaker cabinets. They provide an extremely reliable connection.
