Am I getting paranoid, or are old CDs dying on us?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Takehaniyasubiko, Jan 31, 2023.

  1. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Void
    Hi,

    I had Charlie Sexton's Pictures for Pleasure die on me today. The disc isn't scratched, but it stopped playing properly in ANY CD player, so I was curious what's going on. After putting a very strong light source behind it, I realized the disc developed a ton of "shine-through" spots.

    I started to check more of my CDs from 1980s, and all of them have at least one shine-through spot. I guess most of them will still play fine, but I think this is a general problem with old CDs, and it's going to get worse and worse with each passing year, until the error correction can't keep up with these old CDs...

    I know there's a ton of factors involved - place where it was pressed, the lacquer formula used at a given period, storage temperatures, etc, but now I honestly believe most CDs which are 30+ years old are simply not capable of holding for much longer. That whole story about 100 years of storage was just marketing, IMO. =(
     
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  2. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Who manufactured it?
    I have 1000's of old discs that will outlive me. Most if not all are translucent by manufacture.
    Of course there are always the possible clunkers. Seems a few have issues with Discovery Systems.
     
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  3. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Void
    The one which died is not what made me think this. Obviously, it might have been a pressing issue in that one case.

    It's the fact I checked my 1980s CDs and all of them have those tiny see-through spots. Brand new CDs don't have them at all. IMO, it's oxidation, which slowly creeps through the upper protective layer. When there's just one or two spots like that, the CD can work fine, but I doubt this will last ~100 years, like some people said. I think it's more like ~40 years. =(

    BTW, I don't mean translucence. I mean actual see-through spots, where you can tell the light shines entirely through.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  4. Jeff Kent

    Jeff Kent Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mt. Kisco, NY
    I have 6,000+ and maybe a couple that don't play for a non-scratch reasons and they were bought used. I don't think any of MY CDs going back to 1987 have had any issues.
     
  5. Frank Bisby

    Frank Bisby Forum Resident

    I played a parliament CD yesterday that I bought when I was in college and it was frequent selection after the bars closed. I haven't played it in the last 20-30 years and it looks like it was chewed on by a Mastiff. It played perfectly.

    Anytime I've had a CD that skipped it was because of visible damage and/or an issue with the CD player. IF you have taken care of your CD's, there is no reason for them to go bad due to age.
     
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  6. skimminstones

    skimminstones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    How many of those 6000 have seen regular play? Ive a fraction of that, maybe 3-400 and some i havent played in 10-15 years. Are you playing all 6000 of yours?
     
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  7. Faust3D

    Faust3D Sick of it all

    Location:
    NYC
    Yes, you are paranoid.
     
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  8. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    I inspect my really old one's and some that may be suspect to possible flaking from time to time. It's seems though from multiple other threads done over the years some UK PDO's might start pin holing, but that's a known production problem/flaw.
    One US disc I did have 'rot' was a 1989 CMU Pitman manufacture. However it was in my car for years, weather fluctuations/slot player, etc... It became unplayable- More than likely the fault was mine.
     
    siebrand likes this.
  9. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Void
    This problem was discussed at length back in the day. It seems most people forgot about it: See-thru pinholes on CD

    These pinholes were a problem even back in the '90s. No wonder they only get worse with time, as the aluminum will evaporate over time even with the slightest scratch to the upper paint job.

    Very sad. I bet in a decade or two, there will be tons of pinholes on pre-2000 CDs. =(
     
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  10. Dino Villani

    Dino Villani Resident Senior Audiophile

    Location:
    Destin, Fl
    Never heard of this…
     
  11. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    If these are tiny random holes through the label area, they are called pinholes. They should not affect playback. If there is a problem, error correction takes care of it.
    The tiny holes are on the label side and don't penetrate the polycarbonate plastic.
    Early pressings developed these and they do not multiply over time.
     
  12. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    With your current sample size of one CD failure, one could perhaps use the phase "paranoid", yes... :)

    If your dataset of failed CD's starts to suddenly rise from here, then maybe you found something.... but I'd check local variables (your player, how one might clean them) before foretelling any possible mass extinction on the horizon.

    Then again, I picked up 100's of CDs for 99 cents over the last few years :) maybe someone knows something I don't???

    Wonder what Nostradomus had to say on this...
     
  13. Front Row

    Front Row Finding pleasure when annoying those with OCD.

    Location:
    Chicago IL
    I have CDs since the beginning and the old ones play fine. Have you tried cleaning the defective ones?
     
    siebrand likes this.
  14. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    If your CD has a large area of holes, then there's missing data and that would cause read errors. I've never seen a disk so bad that it wouldn't play. I have 100's of discs with some pinholes.
    There's a phenomenon called disc rot which is caused when the layers of the disc are not completely factory sealed and oxidation forms on the metal layer. These are not holes and may appear as brown or bronze areas. This oxidation will progress and ruin the CD.

    Edit... as stated above, it's well documented that PDO manufactured CDs with pinholes in the 80s. As long as the layers of the disc stay bonded together, no condensation or other defect can form in the disc layers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
    timind likes this.
  15. Rycherocker634

    Rycherocker634 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis
    My original copy of Queensryche's Empire had a giant pinhole. The funny thing is it skipped on my second CD player but not my first. I replaced it with a japanese edition and then a DCC gold.

    Checked my Pat Benatar Live From Earth which I believe was one of the first 3 discs I bought in 85. No pin holes at all. The next 5 discs from 88 or earlier that I checked all had some pinholes. But the worst I just listened to last week with no issues on my close to 20 year old player. Granted I am just going from Memory but the pinhole on Empire was huge compared to these.
     
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  16. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Void
    Well, I hope the majority here is right, and there's nothing to be afraid of...

    BTW, this is the CD which died on me (tons of pinholes, stopped playing).

    [​IMG]

    I'm pissed off because it's almost impossible to find another copy in my country, and importing via Discogs/eBay gets expensive with their mad shipping fees. =(
     
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  17. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Ooh, is that a 'sticky' nimbus? You didn't try and wash it/get it wet did you?
    If you're in Europe try and track down an old German. Probably a Sonopress or PDO manufacture.
     
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  18. Takehaniyasubiko

    Takehaniyasubiko Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Void
    If anybody here is from Europe, and - by some freak chance - has a spare copy of this album, please help me out. It's quite common in some countries, especially in Germany, but it was never released where I live, and importing it can get ridiculous when the shipping price is actually higher than the CD price (like with the offers I see on Discogs).
    The problem wasn't with anything sticky. It just developed a ton of pinholes. If Nimbus had poor top coating, it would explain why their CDs get so many pinholes over the years - oxygen gets through, slowly, by fatally.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2023
    siebrand likes this.
  19. ls35a

    ls35a Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, Idaho
    Yet another reason to rip your collection.
     
  20. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Some Nimbus including US one's had a rubber like coating on them. If they got wet, possible the layer could of been compromised.
     
    McLover and kings81 like this.
  21. Mel Harris

    Mel Harris Audiophile since 1970!

    Location:
    Petaluma, CA
    Why hasn't Disc Rot come up yet?

     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
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  22. Bingo Bongo

    Bingo Bongo Music gives me Eargasms

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I've got a Blu ray that won't play in one of my machines. Could be the Player...... :shrug:
     
  23. audiomixer

    audiomixer As Bald As The Beatles

    How are you storing them?
     
    Michael likes this.
  24. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    In all the years of owning and playing CDs very few of them stopped playing (not including scratched CDs). Not a concern for me in the least.
     
  25. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    My old cds are playing just fine. Never had one "die" on me.
     

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