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Am i hearing things ? replaced the original 43year old fuses in speakers

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Swann36, Apr 1, 2021.

  1. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    Speaker wires are both 10 feet in length (not been altered) they are QED Balanced design speaker cable so they are probably their original 79 strand cable, mine were bought back in 2001 and done sterling service looking online i've found they are 14AWG

    Profile 79 Strand

    The new fuses have a twisted filament the old ones had a straight thin wire that looked to the eye to be much thinner than the twisted filament
     
  2. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur All is Good

    Location:
    PA
    You likely reduced the circuit R (wire and fuse) by 50%, perhaps more.
    I would say a good ear MIGHT notice a difference, but likely only in volume.
     
    Swann36 likes this.
  3. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Phuse phools.

    Be my guest, only $150 and only marked up >100x.

    Cryo schmyro for an extra Benjie...
     
  4. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    These fuse manufacturers say WHATEVER THE F THEY WANT with ZERO ZILCH NADA DATA to back it up, just the typical audiophool wine description drivel.

    Show me fuse claims that are backed up with data...
     
    rofffe and timind like this.
  5. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    I have been totally in that camp, but my $1.67 fuses have made a really surprising positive difference, hence the thread
     
  6. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    You got me as I did not realize you replaced with a $1.67 fuse. I cant imagine fuse technology has changed much over the last 41 years. My only explanation is that oxides or perhaps other surface layers built up at the interface over the past 41 years and this degraded the sound. Is this audible? Who knows but I seriously doubt there has ever been a scientific study done on it as far as stereo equipment. Having said that, I do consider the fuse/holder interface a "weak point" and when I have gear open I will move the fuse or fuses to create fresh metal/metal contacts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
    ti-triodes and Swann36 like this.
  7. PopularChuck

    PopularChuck Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area
    Paul fervently believed the band should use maple blocks to elevate their cables, as he felt it provided blacker blacks and greater spatial separation above 600Hz. John thought it was poppycock, George felt the difference was largely inaudible on all but the most resolving of audio systems, and Ringo wondered why they couldn't just pass a joint and get on with it.
     
    jonwoody, Swann36 and WildPhydeaux like this.
  8. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur All is Good

    Location:
    PA
    No one is saying $$$ audiophile fuses.
    But rather if 40 year old fuses are different than new ones of the same type and rating.
    Fuses deteriorate over time/use.
    Their R is on the order of the speaker cables to begin with and deteriorate over time.
    So yes, there may be a difference.
     
    Swann36 likes this.
  9. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Thanks, I kind of went off there. :uhhuh:
     
  10. Were the speakers moved? If so, were they returned to the exact same position prior to replacing the fuses? And was your listening position changed before vs. after?
     
    timind likes this.
  11. mcbrion

    mcbrion Forum Resident

    I politely disagree. It is possible that it is the fuse itself.
     
    Swann36 and Ingenieur like this.
  12. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    You're right.
     
  13. The Beave

    The Beave My Wife Is My Life! And don’t I forget it!

    Oh boy! Here we goooooooo!
    :-popcorn:
    beave
     
  14. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    My question is, say you had a fuse that did sit untouched in a component for 43 years. After 43 years does the SQ change bc of the fuse(which I feels comes down to the interface bw the fuse and its holder, assuming of course the fuse was "properly made/no QC/materials issues all of which seem highly unlikely to me")? Lets say this is in a component in a system >$1 million.

    And how does one actually test this scenario without waiting 41 years? Or even if one was to take 41 years to do the test?

    I doubt any change will be detectable on scientific equipment, but am open to the idea that it might.
     
  15. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur All is Good

    Location:
    PA
    A fuse will degrade over time. Not so much based on a steady state current if sized properly, say 1 A load, 2 A fuse. There are codes for sizing. The culprit is pulsing or I^2t energy.
    Music is a type of pulse, widely varying current.
    Fuses also have a pulse rating that must be considered.

    A fuse has INTENTIONAL resistance. It is determined based on how much heat (I x V drop, V = I R), and I x I x R = power in W, or heat capacity) is allowed to build up, or temperature rise before it melts.

    This R increases over time as the element expands and contracts.

    This is a whole subject in EE.
    Page 22 illustrates how this affects the lifetime
    Page 23 how R increases with use
    Page 29 shows a 50% increase in 400 hours of on 1 hour on, 15 minutes off

    This happens, this is fact.
    Can it be heard? Perhaps if great enough, it becomes greater than the speaker wire R, so when a new fuse is inserted, perhaps, but only in the extreme. 43 years is a long time and depending on use, perhaps, imo only volume, and minor. BUT if the voids acted like a capacitor, maybe more so.

    https://pure.tue.nl/ws/files/1469141/449473.pdf
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  16. mcbrion

    mcbrion Forum Resident

    I'm a little less "technically-based." I trust what my ears tell me, based on 60 years of listening to live instruments in halls with no amplification or microphones. No measurement will ever tell me if something is actually more "lifelike." I know what "real" sounds like and i know what "almost real" sounds like. So I use my ears. Even with some deterioration in the highest frequencies, I've learned to trust my ears.
     
    BruceS and Tullman like this.
  17. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    Thanks i guess that may explain it ...:)
     
  18. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    Speakers not moved on the Quantum Infinity Jrs the fuse holders are at the back externally next to the tone controls so easily accessible and the controls weren't touched either ..oh and listening seat not moved either ....
     
    Shawn likes this.
  19. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    and the key thing in this thread is that they aren't audiophile fuses .. simply bought from an electrical supply place and to the same spec as the originals
     
    The Beave likes this.
  20. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    Interesting ... i did mention earlier that last June i took the fuses out and cleaned the ends and the fuse holders with deoxit
     
  21. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Since fuses degrade over time thus changing their resistance, the next question is (assuming the fuse/holder interfaces don't matter, which is a pretty big assumption imho), does this (or can this) affect the sound?
     
    BruceS likes this.
  22. lobo

    lobo Music has always been a matter of Energy to me...

    Location:
    Germany
    Enjoy your popcorn, but did I actually respond to one of your post? I'm mighty fine with people spending 1,67 dollar on fuses and hearing improved sound quality. Good for them. I just have a problem with people spending money on fuses or cables and hearing a difference and telling all other people who doubt there really is a difference that they are "ignorant naysayers", "haters" or whatever. Live and let live, see? I let you enjoy your popcorn and if you think it tastes better if it's in abrown paper bag than in a blue one, so be it. But don't tell me that I'm a tasteless ignorant just because I dont't believe that the colour of the paper bag which holds your popcorn will influence the flavour of the popcorn.

    I love these threads... ;)
     
  23. Doctor Fine

    Doctor Fine I'm All Ears

    Location:
    Free Speech Land
    Geez, there are a lot of strange things that happen in this hobby, IMHO.
    I got up this morning and my entire system sounded different---a LOT different.
    Maybe an evil spirit got into my crossover settings, I really can't say.
    But I'm going to reset all the crossover levels and try to get the tone back that I was getting the day before.
    Could be the power company?
    Who the heck knows?
    No fuses were involved.
    Nothing was involved.
    So go figure.
    THAT"S HIFI!

    As for his fuses isn't it possible the technology is completely different on his new ones?
    Trying to pass a decent amount of current through a thin sliver of melt-able wire sounds like a very weak point in the amp/speaker interface.
    I have never owned a HiFi speaker with fuses.
    Pro guitar amp speaker enclosures---sure.
    But they are not intended to be the last word in high end audio quality.

    But for a home speaker it freaks me out to think 12 gauge speaker wire connected through a ??? gauge fuse element made out of tin and junk which is basically as thin as a hair.
    I'm not surprised something changed in his set.
    Low amperage fast blow fuses are a pretty fragile conductor made out of God knows what---am I missing something?
    Why wouldn't he hear a difference?
     
    Swann36, Rick58 and jonwoody like this.
  24. Swann36

    Swann36 A widower finding solace in music Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lincoln, UK
    I just did a search on here for popcorn .... and wow what a lot of threads came up ...i've nver searched for popcorn before but i may well in the future ..finding topics i never knew i should read ... :uhhuh:
     
    jonwoody, lobo and doctor fuse like this.
  25. mcbrion

    mcbrion Forum Resident


    And my also explain why different manufacturer's fuses create a different sonic signature in components.
    With my highly neutral equipment (Audio Research electronics) and several different speaker system, turntables and cartridges and several different sets of wiring, I hear differences among manufacturers. Whether that is because they use different materials, or - a la Synergistic Research - "graphene coating" and 2 trillion volts (well, actually, according to SR "a million volt signal Synergistic Research refers to as 'Quantum Tunneling' alters conductive pathways within a specially developed burn wire") conditioning, the difference between an Audio Horizon, Syngergistic Research, Furutech, Hi Fi Tuning fuses, is quite audible. Audio Horizon is "warmer," Furutech (silver) sounds colder (in fact, nearly everything Furutech puts out - and I've had their cables, IEC put into amps - sounds "cooler," so it's not just their fuses that sound that way; Hi Fi tuning is nice, but lacks some "pizzazz".
    Again, if they all cost $20, nobody would make an issue of them, but since the companies decided to charge as much as some small integrated amps, I can completely understand the furor.
    The nice thing to take away from all this is that fuses deteriorate over time - and that some of us, with trained ears, can hear the differences, audiophile or non-audiophile fuses. I wouldn't know about the 43 year duration, but I'll take the word of the scientists who did the study. In any case, it's nice that there's an explanation for what some of us hear.
     
    Swann36 likes this.

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