I cancelled my subscription to Amazon HD. Why? So much of the "HD" stuff sounds like an upscaled 192kbps MP3. Alison Krauss and Union Station Live is a prime example of that. At least I'm having this issue on Android. Back to Google Play Music or Tidal...
Android does shared mode style audio. All audio gets resampled unless you use a special app like USB Audio Player Pro to force playback into an exclusive mode. It is futile to try to do good audiophile sound on an Android device unless it is using a special player that forces playback into an exclusive mode. The sound quality difference between playing through Android's shared mode audio and exclusive mode is very noticeable. The difference is very noticeable and is like listening to a whole new much better DAC. As an example, I've got a iBasso DC02 USB DAC dongle for my Android phone. I can play high-res files using an Android app like Foobar2000 and compare the same high-res files played back through USB Audio Player Pro. The difference is huge. IMO it is not even worth doing HD quality audio, or even lossless, on Android unless you can bypass the shared mode audio playback. Shared mode ruins the high-res sound benefits. It's like not even listening to high-res. Why bother with high-res played like that? Playing HD audio using the Amazon app will be futile. May as well listen to MP3s through that app than pretend you're listening to high-res. Amazon needs to figure out a way to partner with USB Audio Player Pro or figure out some other way to enable an audiophile exclusive style sound playback. Otherwise the HD Music service on Android is useless.
Are we sure Amazon even really cares about audiophiles? They are politely avoiding answering direct questions on their own forum. Amazon could have enabled Exclusive mode on their desktop app and if done right and sound quality matched (or came close) to Qobuz and Tidal possibly put one or both out of business. I imagine many of the new subscribers are Prime members invited to take the free trial for 90 days to see how many continue subscribing, maybe also buying hardware from their business partners. They perhaps decided to put out a product that was just "good enough". Maybe they will throw audiophiles a bone by licensing their API to Audirvana or Roon down the road.
Maybe, but the whole point of offering an "HD" services is to appeal to audiophiles. Like a lot of their past flop products, this one seems half-baked. They clearly haven't thought thru who their customer is for "HD" or what features those customers would consider critical to quality.
geezle, you all still jawing about Amazon HD? People will think you're competitor trolls. I've looked through the URLs and Amazon pages devoted to it, looks like Amazon is sticking by their Audio Partnerships, letting the hardware manufacturers incorporate the service to drive sell through. Amazon could have just put an optical jack on the Echo Show 5, with dedicated bit streaming of the audio, called it a day...but they partnered with Marantz, McIntosh and many others instead. If they don't see the growth they want (or even if they do) I would fully expect to see optical out jacks added to Echo Show devices next year. The number of friends, family and neighbors investing in Alexa, Ring devices right now tells me we are in middle of an iPhone level extinction event for some of these competitors, Amazon has passed critical mass in the AI/Home Automation area..of which music is a part.
I'd like the amazon app to work, but I'm okay with them letting the hardware people figure it out. My main beef right now is getting a straight answer from amazon OR the hardware people about which devices will give me bit perfect 24/192 playback. No one wants to say "yes" or "no" - one manufacturer even told me "it should work." Anyway, it's ok for me cause my situation is probably different from most peoples: I'm a prime member, I use prime a lot, I'm already a music unlimited member, and prime pantry - so for me it's the best deal and eventually I can work out the 24/192 bitperfect problem for myself, even if amazon cannot.
From what I've read, Denon HEOS Link HS2 over USB is simplest option. I'm similar profile with Amazon, what I really want is an Echo Show 5 with bit perfect output up to 24/192 over an optical out that shows the album cover and song while playing but still works like a regular Echo while the music plays. I think that would be game over for many, many other products.
Really, because I'm starting to wonder if the people defending the product's numerous glaring limitations are being paid by Amazon to troll the forum...
Yes, I'm looking at that one. The only thing cheaper is a bluesound node n100 - but that's the one that nobody can or will give me a yes or no on. I found one at $229. I'm a little unclear on the usb connection. I assumed I can run a lan cable right into the denon and then an analog stereo cable into my receiver. Am I missing something?
The thing I just don't understand, I never had this issue with hi res files of my own, or Tidal. Something is fishy with Amazon, I noticed it even through Bluetooth, it sounded terrible. I discontinued Amazon HD, and I went back to Google Play Music. Lossy, but better quality than Spotify and a less bipolar sound quality and catalogue than Tidal and Amazon. I'm happy now.
Hopefully some people with the right skills will dive in and investigate if Amazon's high-res files are legit and what their playback software is doing.
The only people who care about high-res are audiophiles. And of those only the subset of audiophiles who use their ears rather than being a slave to measurements actually appreciate the better sound quality of good high-res. The masses are happy with lossy. Amazon's Music HD needs to satisfy audiophiles. Otherwise why bother doing it.
It’s called marketing. If you can make the masses think they are getting something better for a cheap price they will jump on board, even if they don’t completely understand and it’s not completely better. Just like HDTV, which I think someone brought up. Amazon doesn’t need to waste it’s time targeting audiophiles. They are competing with Spotify and Apple. Not Tidal and others.
When Tidal was launched by Aspiro in October 2014 they did not offer Wasapi exclusive mode support. That did not happen until after Jay-Z took over. His company bought Tidal in January 2015 for over $50 million and Wasapi exclusive mode was still not added until February 2016. MQA streaming began in January 2017. Point is adding exclusive mode support in Amazon Music HD could take quite a while. However Amazon has the resources to make it happen fast if they decide it is a priority. I think the only way that happens is many users sending feedback to Amazon through the app asking for exclusive mode.
If the HEOS is being fed from a computer USB port then it would still need exclusive mode to play bit perfect. Does anyone know if it does this? It has been shown the using JRiver exclusive mode as the sound output is not bit perfect. I wouldn't expect these to work without testing. I'm not interested in buying ecco-centric hardware to make any streaming work. I'm not buying a $500 Harman Audio umbrella product to plug into my DAC when it should not be necessary. It is looking more and more like this is a marketing ploy only.
Right. The masses were happy with DVD video until Blu-Ray became the thing. And then UHD TV. And 4K, etc. There are serious audiophiles, and there are the consumers who will read Amazon's sales pitch with the graphs explaining why HD or Hi-Res is better and sign up because it's hip or trendy, without knowing or caring that it won't deliver full benefits of better sound quality listening thru their phones or Windows soundcard. There are probably more of the latter than the former, I'd guess, and those are the consumers they're pitching at (I think). Otherwise they'd have stuck to calling lossless CD-quality audio "CD quality" (as they do on Qobuz or Tidal, I think) rather than relabeling it as "HD" to confuse or fool people.
Agree. I think that is their target consumer. Talking with a close friend of mine about audio once he thought all digital was the same, perfect playback. In his mind, any bitrate MP3 = Bluetooth = CD = HiRes. He understood that they were all the same and they were all better than analog. They are an Apple family and I don't know if he even knew about AAC. Definitely wasn't going to get into the weeds of Flac and Alac at the time given his base of understanding. Knowing that he doesn't and never will care about sound quality playing on a single 4" speaker it wasn't worth much of a discussion on the topic. All I did was point out that there are different levels of quality in digital, that they aren't all the same. I think he is Amazon's target. Not us. At that target, AMZN can rename things whatever they want, example CD is now HD, because their consumer doesn't know any better. That target also won't notice that a single Beatles album is pulling songs from multiple masters or bit rates, or that it is going through a computer crapifier sound stack. We should notice and we should care that CD is CD, MP3 is MP3, and HiRes or HD is something higher quality. And we should care that the albums are curated properly.
Been on the HD for 2 weeks now. At the very least coming out of Echo Dot's in/out jack, the SQ is Very Good. About 60% are just outstanding. The thing that impresses most is the smoothness of the audio. Never harsh. Led Zeppelin is actually listenable. Led Zeppelin S/T nearly made me wet myself several times. This is the Moody Blues even though it was only 16/44 was just sublime. The quiet parts did not have to compete with the noises of vinyl, even though I have very Dark vinyl setup. Right now listening to Wilco's "Ode to Joy". Never listened to Wilco before and the stream is very nice with killer bass. Would probably never buy any Wilco without having listened to the group. That is why I subscribed.
And all things considered I still think it's good that they're bringing their streaming service up a notch or two in quality regardless of who the target audience is. If it brings the market standard up to CD lossless instead of MP3 and "HD" is the next big thing, on a level where Apple and Spotify are compelled to get in the game, then once they've landed the 'Big Fish' of the mainstream music consumer they'll be likely to develop and improve their products and services to attract the smaller fish of the serious audiophile, or if Amazon doesn't then maybe Spotify will. Raising the bar on audio quality expectations of consumers is a good thing. As someone said, "Death To MP3". I'm still on the fence as to whether I will subscribe to any music streaming service, but if Amazon started selling lossless or Hi-res music downloads at competitive prices I'm for sure interested.
Yes, sorry, I typed USB but I meant coax. I'm in middle of setting up new office/living area and have gizmos everywhere, sorry for confusion. The HEOS Link is the streamer, so it will decode and output over RCA jacks to your receiver. It will decode 24/192. What I'm interested most (that's different from how you'll use it) is its digital output and running it directly to my DAC/AMP. Some optical outputs only handle 24/96 so I believe I'll need to use coax for my use case. I'm in the queue with Denon right now to confirm. The other option that's coming is Yamaha MusicCast team has been working on adding Amazon Music to the platform for some time, I've emailed them to ask if it will include the HD tier when its deployed
I respectfully disagree. I've got a large (and expensive) collection of hi-rez audio sourced from various sources: Mark Knopfler tours, HD Tracks, artist special release downloads, etc. I use Logitech Slim Devices/Slim Server for delivery so am well versed in all the formats, delivery methods, etc. Amazon is dead on balls accurate to just call it "HD" to differentiate it from their standard Music tier. Just as HD video encompasses 720P, 1080P, 4K....Me, an audiophile consumer with money to spend, cares less about the twiddly bits than just knowing its the best available. I do want the ability to see what I'm getting but I don't want to have to expend time thinking/selecting which format/resolution I want. Give me the best, pass it through, let's call it a day so I can drink scotch and be merry. And I think that's exactly what Amazon is trying to do here, and apparently succeeding at, all within the context of me saying "Echo, Play Dire Straits Dire Straits". I will post back when I've demoed some of this.
sorry, should have agreed profusely on the the curation and computer crappifier pronouncement. I am looking forward to more hardware support. To Kyls point, at very least Amazon could be forcing the other platforms to move away from crappy low res formats.
