Amp to improve my Klipsch rp 600m?

Howdy.

A couple weeks ago I welcomed a pair of Klipsch RP-600M bookshelf speakers.
I have them hooked up to my Yamaha AX-700U (integrated circa 1991, 125 wpc into 8 ohms).
They do sound very lively, dynamic, and powerful; however I think they give a flat-sounding presentation.
I did temporarily hook them up to a Marantz 2215 (circa 1970's) and the imaging did improve but the sound was kind of wimpy and I heard some clipping during cymbal transients.

I'm now looking for an Amplifier to improve the imaging and give a general "sweeter" sound.

My budget is around $400 (but I guess I could save up more if there's something that I should really wait for)

Any suggestions? And thanks in advance!

 

I got a pair of the RP-160M monitors about a month ago and I'm really impressed with them. I bought them to use with my Dynaco ST-70 tube amp and they work very well with it. The Dynaco produces 40 rms watts per channel and will drive them to any reasonable level with no trouble. I also have an Emotiva XPA-3 that puts out around 300 rms watts per channel in stereo mode but I haven't had a chance to hook the 160's up to it yet. The 160's are the model before Klipsch changed them to the 600's. Great monitor speakers, in conjunction with my sub they'll give my KLF-20's a run for their money.

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've heard that Klipsch speakers really sing when paired with tube amps. I have no experience with tube amps and don't really know where to start but I'm seeing that ST-70 is listed at $1200 used. Plus I'm going to have to get a pre-amp. That's a little too rich for my blood, but if there's an inexpensive tube amp that would sound nice, I might be game.

 

I took delivery of a pair of RP-600M on Friday, so they're still brand new and it's early to judge, but they've been sounding really good on my Outlaw RR2160. Very different presentation from the Wharfedale Diamond 225s I've had for a year!

Having also read of the Klipsch + tube synergy, though, I decided to jump in at the very shallow end and ordered one of these yesterday:

TubeCube | 7 Stereo Vacuum Tube Amplifier
https://kenrockwell.com/audio/tubedepot/tubecube-7.htm

It might suck, but at $161.95 all-in with their 10% coupon was worth a shot I hope. If nothing else it will spur me to complete baffles for my Betsy full-range drivers.

I'm in a small room and pretty close at about 7' from the speakers. If you found the Marantz 2215 weak, though, you might need more than an optimistic 3.5 watts in your room.

 

Looks tempting. I have had Klipsch Heresys for 30 years, and never have heard them with tube power. Might give this unit a try. The reviews are very good.
Please let us know how it sounds when you get it hooked up.

 

Indeed, please keep us posted how that pairing works out!

 

Will do!

 

Speakers need lots of time to loosen up and start sounding their best- especially the bass, where the woofer suspension and surrounds become more pliable to give the speaker more warmth and impact. This could take months. In the mean time start saving for a better amplifier than $400 will buy but I do recommend tube amplification. Come back in 6 months and ask again.
While waiting start researching and experimenting with speaker positioning. Height, quality of stands, distance from rear and side walls, etc. Getting that optimized will improve everything.

 

Yaqin MC-13S tube amp. Does not have phono stage, costs around $600 new. Have seen $400 used on ebay.

 

“Flat-sounding”, to me, it says nothing.

“Wimpy”, to me, it says nothing.

This may be the result of a very high THD for an amp:
“3-Band-Stereo-Receiver mit 2 x 25 Watt Sinus an 8 Ohm. Klirrfaktor 0,8%”
2215BL Radio Marantz; Itasca, build 1976 ?, 5 pictures, Unit

An amp having a very low THD within “20…20000 Hz”, some “≤0.02% (or 0,02%, who prefers it)”. And a high damping factor.

 

I have the RP600M's paired with a Schiit Freya tube preamp and a Dennis Had Inspire tube power amp, and it sounds very, very good. I have also paired them with SS but the tubes sound so much better. Break in does take many hours.

 

I paired the TubeCube with the RP-160 last year and it worked great. Plenty of volume and it sounded very tubey. I moved on from it due to needing more inputs and a remote for volume. You should be very happy, especially for the price.

 

With that low limited budget I would modernize and try one of Yamahas new net work receivers. The tone controls will give you a more full sound. Amazon has a good return policy.

Not all amps or tube amps will work with this speaker. My new favorite combination with the rp600m is the Schiit Freya tube pre amp matched with a B&K 125 watt class AB solid state amp. The tube gain stage gives a smooth 3d sound with lots of resolution and without sounding bright or shouty. Subwoofer helps with low frequencies.

I briefly tried using the Freya preamp feeding the Prima Luna Prologue 4 tube amp, but midrange sound was too up front and shouty in my little 10' by 15' room.

The rp600m is a VERYGOOD speaker if matched correctly.

 

I bought my Dynaco for $500 used.

 

Solid state amp clipping Klipsch speakers?
I was under the assumption that under powering speakers with low sensitivity ratings caused clipping.
Those speakers you bought are rated at 96db. Even allowing for a little fudging by Klipsch on the specs they should not be clipping even with an old Marantz.

They could be also be revealing the limitations of the source recording.
Klipsch can do that sometimes.

 

John Atkinson measured them at 89.5 in the new Stereophile review (by Herb Reichert).

 

Jack, would you mind elaborating a bit on those 225-600 presentational differences?

 

Eh, not really, it's pretty much all in our heads. Not to say that the psychoacoustics aren't important! I once had to run a long-term test (240 or so hours continuous) and the physical effects were not highly significant-measurable yes but barely changed the actual response. I had similar results on less insane tests over time. Interested parties can digest this whole mess New speaker running/breaking in questions - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews if really curious.

 

It's early yet but, in a nutshell, they sound more "alive" and dynamic. There seems to be more contrast between loud/soft, and certain things jump right out. Treble is noticeably stronger, but I hesitate to say "bright" because I always read that as a negative. Big horn "blats" and cymbals stand right out, but I never find myself wincing - it sounds right. Maybe because it's so clean? I think I'm most supersized by that. I expected a bright, rough speaker given what I've read of non-legacy Klipsch over the years (I had my Schiit Loki at the ready), but I'm not really finding that. Bass is decent, but not as good as the 225. Can't really have a small, sensitive speaker with deep bass, so that's expected. I'll be rolling in my subs anyway once I get a feel for them au naturel.

They do seem more sensitive than the 225s, meaning I'm running the volume on my 2160 a few db lower on average for my preferred volume level - which I've admittedly not measured.

I spun Kind Of Blue last night and it was loads of fun. The strike of hammers on the piano really had a nice touch, and the horns in the L/R were given a close-miked perspective, practically jumping out of the speakers. And those cymbals - the dynamics used and how soft or hard they were hit were displayed wonderfully.

Anyway, I think I'll keep them simply because they're so much fun. We'll see if it lasts.

 

HI,
Have you considered a Class D amplifier ?
look out for a Puremusic designed with ICE1200AS2 or Nord Acoustics, i have been really impressed with the latter but have heard great opinions on the former.

 

I'm a fan of Klipsch (to some extent) and a fan of tubes but I wouldn't run these speakers with a tube amp, certainly not one that you can get for $400. Unless you are sitting very close to these speakers, like at desk in an office close, a tube amp is going to give up on you before get the volume where you like it. Klipsch is know to over state the sensitivity of their non heritage line speakers and their own literature recommends well over 100WPC for these bookshelf speakers.

I would actually think that Yamaha you have is a good match but if you are looking for something with a little more tone and less detail (like that Marantz you tried), stay in the pre 1980 receiver space just get one with more than 15wpc. For $400 you should be able to fine a Marantz, Sansui or Pioneer with 35 to 50 WPC. For 75wwpc you would be looking at closer to $700 and anything over 100 WPC is over a $1,000, generally speaking.

IF you look for a pre 1980 receiver that is not one of the bands listed above, you can get a much better deal. Kenwood, Technics, Scott, Mitsubishi, and even Yamaha can be had for $400 with 50 to 100wpc. You could also make some changes at your source to help get the tone you are looking for.

 

Errr, the $400 used Yaqin MC-13S is 40 watts per channel or enough power to likely damage a listeners years at full volume over time.

 

This amp is all you need for great sound with those speakers:

Buy Yamaha A-S500 2 Channel Integrated Amplifier online | eBay
Its bass outclasses some high-dollar units. Tone is just a little warmer than neutral.

I'd call them and ask for a better price though. I got a NIB example for $250 a few years ago.

 

Thanks. What is a high damping factor?

 

In loudspeaker systems, the value of the damping factor between a particular loudspeaker and a particular amplifier describes the ability of the amplifier to control undesirable movement of the speaker cone near the resonant frequency of the speaker system. It is usually used in the context of low-frequency driver behavior, and especially so in the case of electrodynamic drivers, which use a magnetic motor to generate the forces which move the diaphragm.

Speaker diaphragms have mass, and their surroundings have stiffness. Together, these form a resonant system, and the mechanical cone resonance may be excited by electrical signals (e.g., pulses) at audio frequencies. But a driver with a voice coil is also a current generator, since it has a coil attached to the cone and suspension, and that coil is immersed in a magnetic field. For every motion the coil makes, it will generate a current that will be seen by any electrically attached equipment, such as an amplifier. In fact, the amp's output circuitry will be the main electrical load on the "voice coil current generator". If that load has low resistance, the current will be larger and the voice coil will be more strongly forced to decelerate. A high damping factor (which requires low output impedance at the amplifier output) very rapidly damps unwanted cone movements induced by the mechanical resonance of the speaker, acting as the equivalent of a "brake" on the voice coil motion (just as a short circuit across the terminals of a rotary electrical generator will make it very hard to turn). It is generally (though not universally) thought that tighter control of voice coil motion is desirable, as it is believed to contribute to better-quality sound.

A high damping factor indicates that an amplifier will have greater control over the movement of the speaker cone, particularly in the bass region near the resonant frequency of the driver's mechanical resonance. However, the damping factor at any particular frequency will vary, since driver voice coils are complex impedances whose values vary with frequency. In addition, the electrical characteristics of every voice coil will change with temperature; high power levels will increase coil temperature, and thus resistance. And finally, passive crossovers (made of relatively large inductors, capacitors, and resistors) are between the amplifier and speaker drivers and also affect the damping factor, again in a way that varies with frequency.

For audio power amplifiers, this source impedance Z s o u r c e {\displaystyle Z_{\mathrm {source} }} (also: output impedance) is generally smaller than 0.1 ohm (Ω), and from the point of view of the driver voice coil, is a near short-circuit.

The loudspeaker's nominal load impedance (input impedance) of Z l o a d {\displaystyle Z_{\mathrm {load} }} is usually around 4 to 8Ω, although other impedance speakers are available, sometimes as low as 1Ω.

So, the higher the damping factor, the better control of speakers. Amps are typically as low as 6 for single-ended tube type to over 100 for powerful solid-state amps. Average tube amp is 15-20 and average vintage solid-state amps are 40-50. Newer solid-state amps at 100 watts output are around 80-100+. Some speakers work well with very low damping factors and others do not.