You can, but the recording level will be so low that background noise and interference will be a significant problem, even if you are able to boost the level digitally when using an extremely high-quality ADC. The gain will be 40dB less than with a phono stage hooked up, which actually translates to 20dB quieter at high frequencies to 60dB quieter at low frequencies, boost that still needs to be applied by RIAA. Cartridges also need the correct capacitance and resistance loading. A higher-gain microphone preamp input on an ADC might be possible, but they typically have a 1000 ohm input load, unsuitable for phono cartridge. A "DI" input for guitar might have similar usable gain, but instead has a too-high 1Mohm impedance. I'm going to try the latter with a special cable that adds the required resistance and capacitance myself. There, the EIN figure of the preamplifier becomes important in setting the attainable noise floor. Here is a flat phono preamp, with 29dB of gain (currently out of stock) Flat Response Phono Preamp Besides digitally-perfect EQ curve, EQ that can be at any standard for 78s with the right software filters (not just a graphic EQ, mind you), one of the opportunities that opens up is to transfer at a lower speed, perhaps 2/3 speed, where cartridge and loading resonances are pushed into the ultrasonic. The rumble of tonearm resonance becomes higher once the recording is speed corrected, though.
Quick update. I bought a Behringer UCA222 (20 quid) and got it setup into Audacity on a RPI 3b. Works ok with no issues whatsoever, so could easily rip vinyl with a RPI and Raspian with shared folders on an SSD etc. However I've been looking at using an old PC, with Windows 10 Pro for Vinyl ripping and Real time click repair through Remote Desktop. I've got it all working, in fact its brilliant, so I've just got a second hand USB sound card to play with- supports 24/192 whilst the Behringer is 24/48 only. Plus it has ROON server and a UPNP server on it for movies. Superb.
Is there any difference between using RCA to 1/4 vs RCA to XLR when outputting to an ADC from an amp?
There may be a difference on the ADC end. On some, the XLR, even if a combo jack, is only for microphone.
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great timing with your question, as I just modified my current rig to simplify and streamline it a bit. My phono stage has both xlr and rca outputs - xlr was feeding main rig, rca was feeding a transformer based headphone amp when then would feed xlr into my ADC. I took that headphone amp out and I am now going rca out from phono to 1/4 jack in on the ADC. Was getting nice clean levels, with gain pots on lowest setting I was recording at a nice level with plenty of headroom for peaks. I made a recording last night and it turned out well so far! This is with the motu m2, as I'm sure different devices may behave differently.
What’s problematic is the XLR input/output may have a divergent gain than RCA input/outputs. It’s not a problem if the XLR component’s gain can be adjusted; but, a mismatch can produce distortion and overload in recording scenarios.
If you have a 1-to-2 RCA Y-cable, use that to set channel balance, better with test signal and levels verified identical in recording software.
Appreciate the discussion regarding setting levels that match each other. On my motu m2, with the gain pots at their lowest level, I am getting enough solid signal thats usable and pretty ideal, but I noticed that just a slight smidge of turning the dial can easily get you into clipping, its very sensitive, so in my case, I figured just leave both dials at their lowest setting which in theory should get those 2 channels to be pretty closely matched in level.
Hi Guys! Interesting discussion about level matching. I will most likely buy a Behringer 202 HD as an audio interface only for vinyl ripping. The knobs are also quite sensitive to match the volume level. So, would it not be much easier to level them after the recording in Audacity for example? I mean to set the max volume for both channels to - 1db? Bye Andrea
You could - but you are perhaps messing up the original levels, intent, and centering. If you've got a stereo track that has panned cymbals ridden on the right channel, a loud block clap on the left channel, more rumble and resonance in one side, etc, then neither your results from normalizing peak levels nor leveling average power output will restore the original channel balance. See below: What an uninformed normalization pass does to the center image, in this panning view (that shows L-R content as the distance from the 0 center line). Observe the blue of centered lower frequencies - shifted lower than the center line. Adjustment by average power level also don't bring this back. What software can't account for: stereo image that looks like this (pulsing left channel content) It's informative to set those imperfect analog knobbies electronically with a meter, so the same voltage input per channel = same voltage out. You then record exactly what's coming out of the cartridge. Then a true mono LP will tell you what your cartridge is doing wrong. Also, don't buy that Booringer. Unless you like distortion. Most any phono preamp can drive it into distortion. You'd need to use the "insert" jacks, only on the 204 model, to make it passable, which preclude level adjustment anyway. Behringer UMC204 HD Audio Interface Review Better ADCs don't have continuous analog knobs, they have settings.
Hi! Thanks. Very interesting. I generally highly appreciate Amirs reviews... I looked around for a bit and the Behringer HD 202 or HD 204 seem to be working on Linux / Raspberry Pi. I do not expect high-end quality for a 63€ device (202 HD in Europe). I only have 3 or 4 very rare vinyl albums which I would like to ripp. If it's not gonna work, I will sell it - and come back here for further advice... Bye Andrea
I was thinking about replacing my Tascam US-144mkII with a more modern ADC like the MOTU you are using, but I have questions about your setup. Do you think your output level is hot from the phono pre you are using?, or are you tapping into a low-impedance input on the MOTU with consumer level audio signal? I read the specs for it on the Sweetwater site and it is supposed to have "Line Level" input (in addition to Mic & Inst.) which I assume is the center 1/4" of the front XLR's. It sounds like to me there is an impedance mis-match in your flow because that is what you are describing with your gain set. If so I would guess you are not getting the best sound out of your system. The pros call it 'gain structure' and any weird signal boost/drop would be flagged for correction in some way. The DI box mentioned in this thread would be a good solution, but unfortunately, any additional device in the signal path ultimately degrades the sound just a little more. The MOTU sounds like a unit I'd like to get and do some ripping with. Anyway, good luck with everything and thank you .
So far my rips have been turning out really well! Levels record at a peak of -3db, and my friend that I share my rips with comments consistently how well they sound. We’re both happy campers and I can definitely advocate for the motu as a quality unit.
OK, being happy with results is a triumph any day over technical sides of things. Best of luck to you. BR in Indiana
I've been trying a variety of devices plugged into the USB port on my Android phone. The phone has a USB-C port, so I have a USB-C to USB adapter for devices that have such a cable built in. I've been testing USB Audio Recorder Pro: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudiorecorderpro&hl=en_US&gl=US I'm not ripping a ton, this is mostly to grab samples to look at while working on my DIY tonearm. So far, though, it works remarkably well. It is nice to be able to just connect my phone, grab a sample, and then either immediately or later email that sample to myself with a note about what it is. Saves having to drag my notebook over, etc. Anyway neat thread.
I actually have a cool app for that purpose on an old tablet called Mobile Studio or something like that, cost 5 or 6 bucks. I never got the chance to test it out because I decided to buy the Tascam SD-20M recorder which served me well until I moved. I would be delighted know which interface you use or like best to import the analog signal to your device, or if you plug it directly in through a line-in jack. Many Thanks
Well I'm really just beginning to test the USB devices so far by using digital sources of pink noise and Audacity, to make sure they're flat. I import the file, apply 30db of correction from 20k to 20k, and then plot the results. I'd like an HRT LineStreamer+ to try, they aren't really available any more, I don't think. If anyone wants to unload one, please PM me. I have a few more devices arriving over the next few days, I'll try to remember to update the thread with some results. One point which may make my requirements different: I don't want any sort of gain/volume control. My vinyl rig would need to play an album with 17db peaks before overloading a 2.5v input, and I *think* most of these devices should handle 2.5v. So I'd just as soon eliminate that sort of control and do all my manipulations via software. Others that have more generous gain stages in their phono may need something with the ability to trim.
Yeah it looks like HRT devices on the market are slim pickings right now with eBay only showing a handful. (They do have a Pro model available but it's for D/A by reading about it briefly.) There is one other dirt cheap USB converter worth checking out and that is the little Monster Cable A/D D/A converter, can be bought at Walmart for under $30. I know it's cheap and available, but I prefer to play with pro gear for some mysterious reason. . I have this Tascam 144MKII converter but I was never impressed with the fidelity. It could have been simply the computer or other components I was using, but I am going to put together from scratch a high-end vinyl transfer this time and evaluate each component. The tascam is going to go if you are interested. I'll be back here tomorrow.
Gonna pass on the Tascam for now, I'd like to avoid a situation where I could inadvertently adjust a gain/trim setting and then have difficulty making A/B comparisons of the arm. The Monster gadget, I don't think at least, outputs anything via the USB port? It looks like the USB port is just there to supply 5v power?
