Andy Kim @ Needle Clinic Negative Review

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Buzzman3535, Mar 29, 2023.

  1. Buzzman3535

    Buzzman3535 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin
    I like many others read reviews of Andy's work on this forum, so when my Sumkio Starling ran 1000+ hours I engaged Andy to ask a few preliminary questions and send my cartridge in for a new stylus. I was told the new stylus would be "not even in the same league" as the factory built Starling it would sound so much better than before.

    I am sure most do not want to read a rant so I am going to try and deliver bullet points of my experience and keep it as factual as possible for others who are interested to evaluate and make their own decisions about working with Andy Kim @ Needle Clinic in the future.

    Before my list below, I want to say that yes in a perfect world yes I would have a backup cartridge to use. But like many of you resources are tight and I have made the decision to buy the one best cartridge I can afford. The Sumiko Starling was my choice so having it leave my system is a leap of faith right off the bat since I have no other way to play music while it was being serviced.
    • I engaged with Andy via email 4 or 5 days before sending in my cartridge for new stylus. Andy indicated to send it on in he was ready to do the stylus replacement. Andy neglected to tell me that he would be on vacation the following week. So the fabled 1 day turn around time I liked from previous reviews was out the window. I did not get my stylus back for over a week after it got to his offices in El Dorado Hills, CA after sending. An admitted aggravation, but not a deal breaker.
    • Reinstalled the cartridge and immediately noticed a loud hum out of one channel. Hum so loud that it overpowered any and all music. Disassembled everything on my RP-10 and reinstalled cartridge from start. I use best tractor custom created for my RP-10 alignment and have used it successfully on multiple installs in the past. Hum still present. Completely took apart my system, disconnected every cable, and reassembled to try and diagnose the buzzing. Narrowed it down to my front end cartridge/phono cable/phono stage. At this point (within 48 hours of receiving the cartridge back) I reached back out to Andy to report the issue i was having.
    • Andy was helpful and tried to ask a few questions to diagnose the issue to the point where he was having me take readings with a multimeter hooked up to the cartridge. I'm no expert, I think I used the multimeter right and reported the results to Andy. At this point he decided it was not his issue, the cartridge was fine, and blamed my set up/system for the hum. Remember this a few bullet points from now.
    • As stated before, I had zero issue before Andy touched my cartridge so I pushed back telling him I did not accept it was a system issue on my end. here is his response verbatim in bold: "your point is absolutely wrong !!!!!!!!
      old damaged stylus and the new stylus I used,
      those 2 are identical styli, micro ridge boron
      even the manufacturer is the same company, Namiki Japan.

      You should blame inferior sound, or whevever the sound you are not happy with,
      you should blame your system,
      I don't appreciate your pointing either,
      If you are not happy with my service (which is absoulutely wrong because I used the exactly same stylus to repair the cartridge, nothing inferior nothing superior than the original stylus) ,
      simply return it/.
      I will break the stylus, and will refund your payment less $100 - evaluation charge.
    • Lets stop for a minute. He says in his response its the exact same stylus as Sumiko buys. Well then... how could it be "in a different league" and guaranteed to last 3000 hours longer than the stock stylus as he claimed before i sent him my cartridge? Interesting.
    • I'll spare you the details on the rest of our 77 item email exchange where he continues to blame me, insinuates I am threatening him, refuses to help, then agrees to help, blows up again and says again its not his issue, I ask to send the stylus in again for a second evaluation which he agrees to do only for a $100 fee ... and then (the capper)
    • When I paid more money to send the stylus back in to Needle clinic he changes course immediately upon inspection, says I broke one of the coils and demands $300 additional dollars to fix. So I'm already at $450 + shipping for original stylus replacement +more shipping on my part + $300 additional to repair coil?
    • He will not answer how the Coil is broken. Will not answer what is involved in fixing it. He says do you want me to do it for $300 or not? No tally of parts, no tally of labor. Take it or leave it.
    • I had no intention of letting Andy extort me for more money so he kept $115 dollars of my original payment, broke the stylus, and returned an unusable Sumiko Starling back to me. Pausing again for a moment to review.... I sent him a worn but perfectly working cartridge. I'm now out 2+ weeks of my time without a working stereo, I"m out $115 dollars plus shipping costs. And I now have an intentionally sabotaged sumiko starling without a stylus. Reinstalling my original stylus and going our separate ways is out of the question he said early on in our exchange, he threw it away. Interesting.
    • You might also find it interesting at this point that I went and put a brand new $2,000 Sumiko Starling from Music Direct on my credit card (money I don't have, the whole reason I was hoping to work with Andy in the first place), reinstalled new Starling and I am playing records without an issue again.
    Buyer Beware if you use Andy Kim and Needle Clinic. Any potential customers have been warned. DM me and I would be happy to forward you the unedited 77 item email chain for you to read up on. By the way he wouldn't take my call when I tried to call him to talk it out. Let me know if you would like to read more on how you will be treated if you have any issue with Andy's work. I hope someone else might find it useful to know how it feels being held hostage to someone who has already taken your $ , refuses to make things right, and leaves you in a substantially worse position with your system than you ever expected to be in.

    Shame on you Andy Kim. I hope reading this makes a future customer pause and consider if they want to do business with a guy like this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    Shawn, mstoelk and nutsfortubes like this.
  2. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    That story stinks, sorry for your experience there, but thanks for sharing. No idea how you could've broken a coil installing the cart. Seems like something that would've occurred while under surgery.
     
    AaronW likes this.
  3. Buzzman3535

    Buzzman3535 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin
    Yes I agree. I didn't break anything. My stereo is the most important thing to me outside my family. I take upmost care.

    The idea that I fat fingered my install and broke it in 24 hours is insulting.
     
    Dave, SCM, mono-o-mono and 1 other person like this.
  4. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    No experience with AK. Just be aware that MC carts with "nude" undercarriages and exposed coils like that are very delicate and the coils could have been broken at any time. It is very common to see used MC carts with broken coils, not just due to the butterfingers but ordinary use. One of the rubs with MC is that the coils move and flex, creating flex damage along the way. Rewinding coils on MC carts is a common repair, but delicate surgery. I would not trust just anyone to do it. I can think of one person I would trust.

    Edit:

    FYI the transmission lines that go from the coils to the pins are also very delicate on many cartridges and repairs are common there too.

    If it were me, I would have tested the cart with a multimeter before installing it and taken pictures of the results and the unboxing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
    Shawn and jonwoody like this.
  5. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Yea, I woulda checked out at that point, but understandable they may feel the need to hype their service. I prefer when they leave the hyperbole to their customers.

    That's really a shame, I know Andy does have many satisfied customers, and there are a few around here, but I've never used him myself.
     
    Strat-Mangler and patient_ot like this.
  6. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    Things can go astray. If that’s how he deals with things like that, existing and potential new customers need to know this. Post your situation on audiokarma, other audio forums and facebook audio groups.
     
    Shawn likes this.
  7. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Fact!
    One worn but usable cartridge sent away to have a new stylus fitted.


    Cartridge returned.
    Fitted.
    Hum now present.
    Verdict. Cartridge fault

    What should Cartridge man have done
    Ask to have Cartridge returned.
    In.the meantime a cheapo Cartridge fitted. Result? No hum
    The proof now verified the honest
    Repairer now repairs the item he damaged. Sends it back with apologies.
    Result.
    Satisfactory outcome.
    I use Expert Stylus co. In UK.

    I had a slight hum on my Linn Asak.
    They were to fit new stylus.
    They contacted me with full report

    Coils damaged. They did a deal with me as they had an Asak in stock.
    ( THEY DON T REPAIR COILS)
    Price was fine and I'm delighted.
    That's a professional outfit that I have been using for over 20 years.
    You have had poor service.
    Shame on him.
     
  8. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Re-read your initial post. Multimeter resistance test should have uncovered a broken coil unless I am misunderstanding what a broken coil means.
     
    Prighello and matthewp like this.
  9. Sugar Man

    Sugar Man Forum Resident

    I used Andy and it went well. Sorry to hear about your experience. Regardless of where the problem arose, he should have taken the loss on his end absent solid proof you inadvertently damaged it during install. Even then he should have offered a repair at no more than cost. Bummer.
     
    captouch and ddarch like this.
  10. Brucedgoose

    Brucedgoose Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hawaii
    Terrible! I've used SoundSmith for retipping with no problems. Highly professional.
     
    Shawn and woody like this.
  11. Prighello

    Prighello Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    This is exactly what I was thinking as well.

    Hoping OP can perhaps sell the damaged Sumiko as a rebuild to recoup some funds.
     
  12. gakerty

    gakerty Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I've used Andy multiple times (Benz Wood, Gullwing, a couple LPS retips or rebuild) plus recently a retip on an Aidas. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, and it should be noted, but FWIW I've always been very happy with both the communication and the quality of Andy's work. Yes, it also took me just over a week to get my cartridge back this round, because he was indeed on vacation. One waits ~2-4 months for Soundsmith, which I've also used, and the quality of the job for me is seemingly identical between Needle Clinic and SS.
     
  13. japhi

    japhi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Amazing that he insisted on breaking the new stylus before returning. What is the point of that other than pettiness?
     
    Shawn likes this.
  14. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Pettiness and loss of potential future customers. Can't think of any other reason, and both of those are not good.
     
    japhi likes this.
  15. gakerty

    gakerty Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Yeah, that seems strange and out of character for him. Petty at best. I'm not sure what to think now, since my experiences with Andy K have been positive.
     
  16. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Could the coil have possibly been damaged during shipping back to the OP?
     
  17. Johncan

    Johncan Always learning

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    ^^ Yes. I had a MC cart with a broken coil. It worked fine for years and then one day it did not. I did nothing that could explain how it broke. It just broke. I sent it off for repair. The repair shop confirmed the coil broke and had no idea why it broke. They can just break.

    I have used Andy several times with no issue.

    Sorry you a had a bad experience. Andy usually offers and delivers excellent service.
     
  18. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    It sounds to me like he did not rock that cartridge gently.
     
  19. Buzzman3535

    Buzzman3535 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Austin
    I would think its possible for that coil to have been damaged in shipping. Perfectly reasonable question.

    I would have loved to explore that with Andy instead of getting lambasted for my system not being set up correctly and having him tell me repeatedly I don't have good sound in my system and the problem was on my end. I also would have potentially written it all off to shipping damage and maybe even paid for the repair if he had just told me what he thought the issue was, how long it took to fix, and the cost of what parts were involved.

    $300 out of his #*s with no explanation and no guarantee of success is a pill I was not willing to swallow.
     
    Shawn likes this.
  20. captouch

    captouch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    :laughup:
     
    majorlance likes this.
  21. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I don't know if it's "pettiness" but it's not that simple to "undo" retipping work once it's done. My guess is AK replaced the whole cantilever + stylus unit instead of just the diamond. From there when OP wanted a refund, he would have either used a solvent to dissolve the glue on the cantilever or chopped it off with a sharp tool.

    If they let OP keep it they would be out $200-300 for the stylus + cantilever unit from Namiki/Orbray, along with whatever AK charges for labor to do the job in the first place. So AK took back his parts and charged a fee for the original labor.

    As to when or whom broke the coil on this cart, no idea and there is no proof of that here. It could have happened at any point as I said upthread.

    FWIW I had a bad experience with one retipper and would never use that retipper again. That person has many happy customers - I just wasn't one of them. Communication wasn't great in my case either.

    There are a lot of things that can go wrong with retipping or any type of delicate cartridge work. Again I would suggest anyone receiving a retipped cart back in the mail immediately take pics or a video of a test of the coils with a multimeter and thoroughly document any other issues.

    IMHO the best retippers thoroughly test a cart and provide documentation when they send a cart back. I know one guy that takes microscope photos and sends photos of other tests along with the completed work. Less confusion that way.
     
    Shawn and Johncan like this.
  22. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    See the simplified GIF illustration of a moving coil cart below. The coils use wire that is very thin, and they have to be wound by hand. Most high output MM and MI carts are wound on a machine. When a coil breaks, all that wiring has to be undone and the rewinder needs to redo the whole thing. It's delicate work and to do it right they need to make sure they don't deviate too much from the original electrical specs of the cart. All this is done under a microscope by hand with tiny tools. Same thing happens at the factory when LOMC carts are made. Since this is specialized work that few people do, they charge appropriately for it.

    [​IMG]

    Now I'm not saying you should have let AK (or anyone else) do the coil rewind for you, but I'm just trying to explain how things work in case anyone in this thread does not know.
     
    kamchatka likes this.
  23. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I bought a couple of those Nakimi MR Boron cantilevers and have been reluctant to send them out for a re-tip due to potential damage. I did hear the coils on many delicate cartridges can be easily damaged in transit due to many variables, including the possibility of extreme magnetic damage.
     
  24. audiomaniac

    audiomaniac Shamalamadingdong

    Location:
    Colorado
    Even if you discovered a broken coil when you unboxed it, it sounds like he could claim that you broke it when you unboxed it. Either way, he should have helped you out. Things can happen. He should have offered to look it to see if there was a problem and fixed it at no cost or minimal cost to you. It just makes good business sense. Word travels in our community and a bad experience like this can cost him way more than taking care of you. I almost sent a cartridge to him years ago and now I'm glad I didn't. There are other options.
     
  25. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I'm not OP.
     

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