Another Steely Dan Aja CD test thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bob2935, Jan 19, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ChristianL

    ChristianL Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Does anyone know who mastered this version?
     
  2. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    Out of three listed above I'm begining to think that this one (90.8 --- 91.7 --- 90.6 --- 88.7 --- 96.3 --- 86.2 --- 97.6) could possibly be Rogers mastering.

    To answer the question above... there are a mega amount of the Roger Nichols masterings available compared to the relative very few SH pressings. Steve himself, and I agree 100%, has said there is nothing wrong with Rogers mastering other than a lack in the midrange and it still sounds very good and worth owning. Roger's was the only master other than Steve's up until the remasters came about and Roger did every single Steely Dan album.
     
  3. scottabs

    scottabs Forum Resident

    How do you know you have Steve's version based on this info from his discography:

    Only the first 5000 copies pressed are by Hoffman, then Aja was remastered by Roger Nichols in New York. (Note: we are unsure at this time how to identify this disc, or even if it exists.)
     
  4. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    This info is outdated. Steve has confirmed that a certain CD owned by forum member Mal (namely, a UK disc with the catalogue number MCLD 19145) has his mastering, because Mal sent a copy to Steve. His CD turned out to be bit-identical to my German CD (MCD 01745 BMG Ariola) and to certain Japanese MCAD 37214 CDs owned by tone deb fred and Leppo.
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    You can tell by owning a Roger Nichols mastering for comparison. When you get Steve's you definitely know as it's not that subtle.
     
  6. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Just to clarify - Steve listened to the actual disc not a copy. He said it sounded exactly like his mastering and concluded that it must have been made from a clone of the original 1630 master he prepared for the original US release.

    Here's the disc itself:
    [​IMG]

    In case the photo is not clear enough to see all the details clearly, here they are:

    Catalogue number: MCLD 19145 (printed on CD label)

    "Made In England" printed on CD label.

    Inner ring text: "A1388 DMCL 1745 : 1:0", "IFPI L123" [appears in small print twice on inner ring], "Mastered By Nimbus".



    Of course, this is not the only pressing to use Steve's mastering. Has anyone compiled a definitve list of verified clones?

    :)
     
  7. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Thanks for the correction. (It wouldn't have made a difference for me, but it could be for others.)

    Do you ever read one of my posts? :)

    Seriously, not all forum members believe that bit-identical discs have necessarily the same mastering, so there will never be a definitive list.

    My CD is MCD 01745 BMG Ariola, Made In Germany.
    The following members have posted clips from their Aja CDs that were bit-identical to mine:

    Mal (MCLD 19145, Made In England)
    beckenham (MCLD 19145, Made In England)
    tone deb fred (MCAD 37214, Made In Japan, CSR)
    Leppo (MCAD 37214 DIDX-55, Made In Japan, JVC)
    bob2935
     
  8. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    I'm just making the point that there is no question over which version he verified as being his. A CD-R could be from any source......

    I always read your posts :thumbsup:

    Bit-identical discs are from the same mastering - anyone who disagrees needs to have their head examined :agree:. Unless they are talking about differences such as silent banding etc?? As far as the music content is concerned bit-identical=same mastering.

    Thanks for the more complete list of discs verified to be clones (at least for the sections tested) of the "Aja" disc verified by Steve as using his mastering - any chance of including the matrix numbers where known?


    Here are my additions/corrections:

    Disc verified by Steve:
    *Mal - cat#:MCLD 19145, matrix#:A1388 DMCL 1745 : 1:0, Made In England

    Verified Clones:
    *Andreas - cat#:MCD 01745, BMG Ariola, Made In Germany
    *beckenham - cat#:MCLD 19145, matrix#:MCLD19145 01 & [pressing origin not stated on disc]
    *tone deb fred - cat#:MCAD 37214, Made In Japan, CSR
    *Leppo - cat#:MCAD 37214 DIDX-55, Made In Japan, JVC
    *bob2935

    The info about cat# and matrix# of known clones should go into the discography - Gorts?.....

    :)
     
  9. scottabs

    scottabs Forum Resident

    I have the MCAD-37214 DIDX 55 "Manufactured in Japan for MCA Records....", but don't see JVC or CSR anywhere on there. Where should I be looking, or is that just confirming I don't have Steve's version?
     
  10. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    I don't really know since I've not seen that disc before - I think CSR would be on the clear plastic inner ring and JVC would either be mentioned in the manufacturing details or possibily in the inner ring. Anyone know if a pic of Leppo's disc is in any of the old threads?

    Otherwise we need someone with either of these particular discs (ie JVC or CSR versions), ideally Leppo, to chime in........

    :)
     
  11. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    No. Forum member bob2935 has a CD which has the song Josie bit-identical to Steve's mastering, and which has the above EAC peak levels. The details of his CD are:

    MCAD 37214 DIDY 000055 CRC.

    Strange: The song Josie peaks at 97.5 on my CD, but at 97.6 on his. But they were still bit-identical. (?) (We are talking about a fraction of 30 seconds or so of the song. I did not test the entire song.)
     
  12. Leppo

    Leppo Forum Librarian

    Location:
    Off Broadway
    You called? :)

    Still need an Aja pic?
     
  13. scottabs

    scottabs Forum Resident

    I'd like to see one. :)
     
  14. bob2935

    bob2935 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oakville, Canada
    Hi everybody. I didn't realize that this thread was still going. My CD was made in the US. Despite thepeak level difference from Andreas's CD, do we have any reason to believe that my copy is not Steve's mastering? Either way, it sounds great to me. BTW, there are a lot of 1984 Aja CD's available on Ebay right now but there don't appear to be any other original Steely Dan CD's. I felt lucky to get a 1984 Gaucho 2 months ago.
    Please PM me with links if any of you come across the remaining 5 in your online travels. Thanks.
    Bob.
     
  15. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Hey, Leppo :wave:

    A picture? Why not - anything to put an end to the confusion over which pressings are which for this particular title :help: :D.
     
  16. I have two Aja pressings:

    Japan VDP-27 (1984) and US MCAD-37214 (no DIDX 55 on disc).

    Here are the EAC peak level results:

    Japan VDP-27 ---- 100.0 -- 89.5 -- 95.8 -- 100.0 -- 100.0 -- 96.5 -- 97.0

    US MCAD-37214 --- 90.8 -- 91.7 -- 90.6 --- 88.7 --- 96.3 -- 86.2 -- 97.6

    And then there's this version listed by Andreas:

    US JVC (DIDX-55) - 81.4 -- 100.0 --100.0 -- 97.4 -- 99.8 -- 100.0 -- 90.4

    How many versions are there??? :confused:
     
  17. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    Location:
    Central PA
    Okay, once more for the terminally bewildered: exactly how does one go about finding these peak level results on EAC?

    Mine's a MCAD 37214 DIDX 55, but the ring says MCAD3724ARE J2; the ring sez "MFD BY JVC", but the label on the disc says "Made in USA"; spines and artwork are like the '84, but with price code area left blank, with BMG Music Club info on it. Any chance that could be a Hoffman clone?

    And while we're at it...listen to "Black Cow"...is that a dropout or an ugly splice at 1:02?
     
  18. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    You extract the CD with the program ExactAudioCopy. When it is finished, there is a window that reports possible errors and a peak level for each track.
     
  19. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Does anyone know whether there is a way to get the peak value reported either as a binary, decimal or hex value rather than as a percentage (which is not very accurate)?

    I have an MCAD-37214 DIDY 55 disc (a CRC copy) with the hand-written CI-5650-1 matrix (and another matrix number which has been crossed out). Looking at the track Black Cow, EAC reports a peak value of 90.8% and the peak occurs at sample value 3887323. Now, assuming the amplitude is represented by +/- 32768 in decimal (a slight approximation to make life easier), then 90.8% equates to an amplitude value of 29753.344. Since there can be no fractional values, EAC is rounding the real value to 90.8% in this case. So, if someone knows how to show the peak values as numbers, that will make for a much more accurate comparison. It will also be interesting to see whether anyone with a disc that returns a 90.7% peak value has the peak occuring at the same sample value of 3887323?
     
  20. ChristianL

    ChristianL Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Can anyone tell who did this mastering? It's the version I have.
     
  21. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Can you write out all the details of your CD, including matrix numbers and country? My theory has always been that the above mastering is the infamous 1991 remastering (which was not authorized by Roger Nichols). I can't imagine that it is Roger Nichols' original mastering since it sounds much brighter and somehow modernized compared to Steve's.

    My other theory is that the above mastering is the one that Dave calls the Nichols mastering.
     
  22. ChristianL

    ChristianL Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I send You a PM.
     
  23. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    No sorry your theory for me is not correct Andreas. I am specifically speaking of the original Nichol's mastering that does not sound bad at all. It just has less midrange presence and lacks some general overall presence of Steve's to my ears. The 90's Nichols mastering I have heard and it is bright to my ears and not at all like the previous Nichols mastering from 84'. It was 84' yes?
     
    kingofstoneage likes this.
  24. ChristianL

    ChristianL Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Here's another one that matches to the above mentioned peak level profile:
    MCA Manufactured in Germany # 250 449-2 (MCAD 37214)

    The first song starts at 0:00:02 instead of the more common 0:00:01.
     
  25. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Interesting. Is the hiss present between the tracks? (By the way, Black Cow also starts at 0:02 on mine).
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page