Another Steely Dan Aja CD test thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bob2935, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. OE3

    OE3 Senior Member

    I got one!

    i've been so thoroughly confused reading all of the Steve Aja threads over the last nine months, BUT today i am convinced i finally found a copy (only my second Aja, too). anyway, here's the skinny:

    'MCAD-37214' at 3 o'clock on disc (no DIDX)
    'Manufactured in USA for MCA Records'

    TRT: 40:00 (no hiss between tracks)

    matrix: MCAD-37214-1 1C1D (note: the '1D' is cut into the disc, like a stamper) MFD BY JVC

    inserts do not have 'Printed in USA' anywhere. back page of booklet has MCAD-37214 DIDX 55 in top right corner.

    i bought the disc because of the 'MCAD-37214' and 'MFD BY JVC', not knowing if i had the correct matrix info, but i am convinced it is steve's because of my ears. according to a post by steve 9/11/04 on another Aja thread:

    'Does it sound good? Is the midrange nice and realistic without a big "hole" or not? Is the bass a little more defined or not? Is the lower top end a little more defined or not?

    If not, it's not.'

    compared with my CRC DIDY 55 version, this has all the elements SH describes in his post. it sounds like finally got one! :goodie:
     
  2. ChristianL

    ChristianL Senior Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Andreas, yes there is hiss between the tracks.
     
  3. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    This one has a lot more top end than the CRC disc, right?

    I have this one also (except mine has 15 cut into the disc). A number of others have it also I believe. Unfortunately, I think the consensus is that this one is definitely not Steve's mastering -- and not Roger's either. In fact, IIRC, I believe Steve listened to a sample of this one and said it was not his.
     
  4. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    OK, I wouldn't be a REAL SH Forums member unless I eventually waded into this "is it Steve's AJA or not?" quagmire!

    I found the following 1984 AJA CD (Columbia Record Club) for $6.95 at a used store this weekend. I'm wondering if this is the same pressing that bob2935 has:

    Printed on silver part of CD:
    MCAD-37214
    DIDY 000055
    CRC
    Made in USA

    On the back inner silver ring:
    5 1AMCD 37214-2 SRC+01 M1SB1 (the last 5 characters are very hard to read and I'm not 100% sure I have them right - could as easily be M1881 for example, bottoms of these characters are partly cut off it seems - trailing into the clear plastic inner ring)

    Nothing intentionally printed or embossed on the clear plastic center ring

    Songs all start playing at 0:00

    Lengths:
    Black Cow - 5:10
    Aja - 7:57
    Deacon Blues - 7:37
    Peg - 3:57
    Home At Last - 5:34
    I Got The News - 5:06
    Josie - 4:33

    Total disc length: 39:57

    If I am reading this and the many prior threads on this topic correctly, these track lengths and the overall length of the disc are the same as on at least some Japan CBS pressings, and also IIRC the tunes start at 0:00 on (some of?) those as well.

    This sounds VERY nice...certainly not overdone on the top end, REAL nice bass, vocals sound real. Just a little bit of a midrange hole, but not gaping. Snare is very present on "Black Cow." All this has me wondering about whether it may be Steve's work. I wouldn't bet my life on it but it sounds very much like he'd do.

    Any of you experts have any thoughts about this?
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    Tony, sorry I can't help you with your pressing, but I can confirm the UK pressing with Steve's mastering is...

    Black Cow - 5:11
    Aja - 7:58
    Deacon Blues - 7:36
    Peg - 3:56
    Home At Last - 5:34
    I Got The News - 5:06
    Josie - 4:30

    Total disc length: 39:54
    and all start on 0:00
     
  6. SonicZone

    SonicZone Senior Member

    Location:
    Upland, CA
    Based on the above timings, I'm guessing it's the Roger Nichols master.

    Steve himself has said this is an EXCELLENT sounding disc (to which I concur), and is very close to the way he mastered his own version.
     
  7. Hi Tony,

    Welcome to the fray! :wave:

    Do you have EAC? Maybe you could post the peak levels on your CD.
     
  8. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    OK, here's the peak levels from EAC:

    Track 1 - Peak level 90.8 %

    Track 2 - Peak level 91.7 %

    Track 3 - Peak level 90.6 %

    Track 4 - Peak level 88.7 %

    Track 5 - Peak level 96.3 %

    Track 6 - Peak level 86.2 %

    Track 7 - Peak level 97.6 %

    Mean anything definitive to anyone? I have read all the threads on this but my head was left spinning. HOWEVER, with that caveat in mind, it sure looks to me like, based on Andreas' comments in this thread a while back:

    ...these are the exact same peak levels as on bob2935's copy of AJA - which Andreas seems to feel strongly is an exact clone of a verified Steve-mastered AJA. And again my CD is a DIDY 000055 CRC disc.

    So with all that, coupled with my "ear test" suggesting strongly this may be Steve's work, I'm starting to get a very warm fuzzy feeling about this! Anyone out there ready to rain on my parade?! :D
     
  9. davenav

    davenav High Plains Grifter

    Location:
    Louisville, KY USA
    Not me. I have a CRC USA Aja and it is a different mastering than my other Aja's from the same year. I'm convinced, despite the well-meaning contradictions from some at this board, that it is indeed the SH version. It has all the hallmarks.

    I think it's time we all recognized the fact that there are more of Steve's version out there than was previously supposed.

    The same goes for Katy Lied. I have a 'plaid' version from the second round of releases, which are supposed to be only Nichols' version, but this one is definitely Steve's.
     
  10. Those are the same peak levels as mine (and a lot of of other board members here). Even if it's not Steve's mastering, it still sounds great. Enjoy! :righton:
     
  11. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    You're right, it does sound great regardless so I'm a happy man either way! :)

    I don't "have" to know the answer for sure, but it would be nice. I'm interested as a test of my ears - to see if I can identify Steve's work (as I think I have here) without knowing in advance whether or not it's his - separating "psychoacoustics" from the real thing.
     
  12. ChristianL

    ChristianL Senior Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Dave, would You mind to post the EAC profile with the peaks of the confirmed UK disc?
    Or is it already posted?
     
  13. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Identical masterings:

    1. MCD 01745 BMG Ariola, Made In Germany [Andreas]
    2. MCLD 19145, Made In England [Mal], song tested: Black Cow
    3. MCLD 19145, Made In England [beckenham], song tested: Black Cow
    4. MCLD 19145, Made In England [tone deb fred], song tested: Josie
    5. MCAD-37214 Japan CSR [tone deb fred], song tested: Josie
    6. MCAD 37214 DIDX-55, JVC, Made In Japan [Leppo], song tested: Aja
    7. MCAD 37214 DIDY 000055 CRC. [bob2935], song tested: Josie

    Comparisons were always made against the disc listed as number 1 above.

    EAC Peak levels:
    90.7 --- 91.7 --- 90.8 --- 88.9 --- 96.3 --- 86.2 --- 97.5 (MCD 01745, Made In Germany)
    90.7 --- 91.7 --- 90.8 --- 88.9 --- 96.3 --- 86.1 --- 97.5 (MCLD 19145, Made In England)
    90.8 --- 91.7 --- 90.6 --- 88.7 --- 96.3 --- 86.2 --- 97.6 (MCAD 37214, Made In Japan)
     
  14. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    I've just send Andreas .wav files of the first minute of "Black Cow" and "Peg" so he can determine if they are identical to his verified Steve mastered versions or not. The suspense is killin' me!
     
  15. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    A forum member was kind enough to send me a copy of the UK disc. I compared it to the digitally identical CRC and Made In Japan copies. The UK disc is NOT digitally identical to these discs (as the slightly different peak levels would suggest). However I agree with Andreas that the UK disc IS from the SAME MASTERING. I'm not sure what causes these ever so slight digital differences, but I don't believe it is because of different mastering.

    Unfortunately I'm a little tied up today (and don't have the info handy anyway), but I will try to get back with my findings on these three discs tomorrow.
     
  16. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    Yes Christian, I believe it's already posted in one of these Steeely Dan threads where someone else had asked me to do that. :agree:
     
  17. ACK!

    ACK! Senior Member

    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Last year, I picked up the Canadian reissue:

    MCABD-37214-DIDX 55 (cat. number)
    MCAMD-37214-MFG BY CINRAM-#92112OH (matrix code)
    39:58,
    which is Roger's master from what I've gathered in this long and winding thread.

    Earlier this year, I picked up a used CRC copy:

    MCAD-37214-DIDY-55 (cat. number)
    DIDX-000055-3 (matrix code)
    39:56

    The Canadian reissue sounded brighter to me, while the CRC copy had deeper bass and a nicer overall sound to it. I've kind of convinced myself that it could be Steve's mastering work. Besides, Steve himself has said you can't go wrong with either one of his or Roger Nichols' masters. It's just a damn good sounding disc, period - the CRC copy - and I'm more than content with it.

    And I know for a fact I have Steve's Katy Lied - after what I've read and a good listen to it (it has the "Hoffman sound"), I feel 100% certain I scored the right disc for that album.

    And the great thing about these MCA Steely Dans is that they can generally be had very cheap - some "hidden treasures" of the used CD world, as I would put it. Everybody knows DCC and if you find used ones, you are charged accordingly for them, but I say we keep these MCAs (and others of that ilk)...our secret! :shh:

    Speaking of MCA discs, I'm looking for...
     
  18. poweragemk

    poweragemk Old Member

    Location:
    CH
    Coincidentally, picked up a Japan-for-the-US JVC copy of this disc today. Only took a brief listen and haven't compared to my previous pressings, but, judging by the snare sound (and the total and track times, etc), it's the Steve disc. Cool!

    Also, guys - keep this in mind when you're discussing a COLUMBIA HOUSE (CRC) pressing: many of you probably already know this, but they are infamous for not updating their CD-label and insert typesetting, so there literally could be four different pressings with the same catalog number and inserts. Best to go on pressing plant and matrix information, as well as EAC analysis.
     
  19. Has anyone ever performed a null test between the UK and Japan discs? Are there noticeable differences or just sporadic spikes in the wav? Identical discs should flatline, but if there are any EQ differences, these would be evident in the resulting wav.
     
  20. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    Bingo - the bass is just remarkable on my CRC disc. Seeing Steve commenting earlier that his version should have better just a little defined bass than the Nichols version was one of the things that made me think this must be his. That and the characteristic lack of artificiality on the highs like cymbals. It's just one great sounding disc...can't wait to see what Andreas comes up with, just to see if my ears are able to pick out Steve's work without a label credit as I think they may have.
     
  21. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I have (see post #90 above). Sorry I was unable to get the info I have on these discs together last night...I'll try again tonight.
     
  22. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    The two files you sent me were identical to the mastering found on my MCD 01745 disc.

    In particular, the Black Cow sample was identical to the mastering found on Mal's MCLD 19145 disc which was identifed as Steve's mastering.

    I am still unsure why the EAC peak levels are slightly different. I tested the first minute of Peg from my disc against DrJ's, and they were digitally identical. However, the EAC peak levels are 88.7 vs 88.9 (for the whole song)...?
     
  23. ChristianL

    ChristianL Senior Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    OK, so now I'm convinced my latest Aja purchase MCA Manufactured in Germany # 250 449-2 (MCAD 37214) with the EAC peak level profile 90.8 --- 91.7 --- 90.6 --- 88.7 --- 96.3 --- 86.2 --- 97.6 has Steve's mastering.

    I'm very glad about it... OTOH now I'm motivated to look out for the Roger Nicols mastering just to find out about the differences. The hunting never ends, it seems.

    BTW, the origin of the mastering with the 81.4 --- 100.0 --- 100.0 --- 97.4 --- 99.8 --- 100.0 --- 90.4 EAC peak level is still an unsolved mystery.

    I will keep an eye for the Aja threads.
     
  24. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    Can you null-test the whole song? If it comes out identical then that would indeed be weird!

    :)
     
  25. poweragemk

    poweragemk Old Member

    Location:
    CH
    Anyone have EAC analysis available for the Nichols version?
     

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