Another turntable advice thread - $1000

I am always impressed with the great advice offered on these types of threads so hoping I can get some as well from the usual participants. Lots of new offerings in this range so a bit overwhelmed with the choices. I promise to reply and close out the thread when a decision is finally made which will be in the next few months. Pet peeve of mine is a thread that asks for help and then doesn’t let everyone, who graciously provided advice, know what happened. Providing as much detail as possible and would like to stay under or near $1000:

History and musical tastes - I have mainly been a CD listener and have about 2000 CDs but also about 350 LPs. I currently own a very cheap AT turntable and would like to upgrade to something not more than $1000, including cartridge. I have a Cambridge CXA-60 integrated amp and a Cambridge Azur 651p preamp played through ELAC Debut 2.0 F6.2. About 60% of my LPs are jazz (Blue Note and Impulse) and 40% classic rock (Doors, LZ, Hendrix, Uriah Heep, etc). I probably only have a handful of albums that were recorded after 1979, 60s and 70s is my sweet spot. I have a handful of 45s and a couple Music Matters 45 jazz LPs.

Turntable preferences - I don’t really have a belt drive preference but the direct drives more modern look isn’t as appealing to me (but will keep an open mind). I don't want a built in preamp, and I prefer RCA connecters to built in wiring. Ease of use and setup is important, I am not a tinkerer and don’t know a Baerwald from Adam. Some of the ones I’m considering:
1. Music Hall MMF 5.3 - $999. Has been my leader in the clubhouse for a while. Looks nice to me, comes with Ortofon 2m Blue and is supposedly easy to setup and use. Have seen it in person at a local dealer. Would have to remove platter and manually switch belt to play 45s but minor nuisance for me. Seems like this might be the end of the run for this model as some places are out of stock now and there is a new...
2. Music Hall MMF 3.3 - $700 for the black which comes with an Ortofon 2m red. So less expensive cartridge but has electronic speed change, I just can’t find any reviews on it. I assume the tonearm isn’t as good as the 5.3 either.
3. Pro-ject 1Expression Carbon Classic - $800. Music Direct and some other vendors seem to be closing out this line with new Pro-ject models coming on line. Really like the simple look of this and comes with Ortofon 2m silver cartridge (with silver spools! - I honestly don’t know what that even means but they always mention it in the marketing). One thing I noticed, it is a very light TT?
4. Rega P3 - $1145. I know a lot of people love it including Ian from HiVinyws whose videos are very entertaining. Just don’t tell me I need to get it with the Exact because then it is out of budget. This is even pushing it. Or that I should get a 2m blue but then I need spacers because that isn’t happening either. Plus it has built in connectors. I’m sure I would love the sound just not sure it is the best choice for me longterm?
5. Pioneer PLX 1000 - $700 then buy a $200 or so cart to go with it. I saw this at a local Guitar Center and it was sturdy as a house with the one exception the cueing lever looked plastic and cheap but possibly that is just for display?
6. Mofi Studiodeck - looks great and I can drive to Music Direct just bummed they raised the price to $1350
7. Others to look at??

Looking for a turntable I can be satisfied with for at least 10 years and grow with over time - possibly trying different carts and preamps. My setup is in the basement, concrete floors, large room.

 

Looking for your help please:
@Helom @SandAndGlass @Agitater @KT88 @Cyclone Ranger @Big Blue @Benzion @Davey and others

 

If you're looking to keep this table for 10 years, I would suggest saving up a bit more and buying one above $1,000. Not saying $1,000 tables are bad. My choice would be the Rega P3 with the Neo PSU for around $1,000. That will ultimately give you a great introduction into high end tables. But, I fear after a few years, you'll most likely want to upgrade to see what a next tier table can do. If you okay with that, I'd say go for the Rega. It's just with the 10 year lifespan requirement that I feel you would be better off saving for a bit and upping your budget.

 

Sit back and watch our Equipment For Sale forums, that is where I bought my last three turntables.

 

I can't offer much insight on the models you listed. I do however have a dealer nearby (Acoustic Sounds) who has experience with some of them. I find they're straight-shooters when it comes to brand comparisons. A couple times they even steered me away from brands they carry and suggested brands they don't. So you might give them a call. They recently took in a large collection of pre-owned gear that they plan to sell, some of it is brand-new-in-Box, so you might inquire about that.

I know they're very big fans of the older VPI Scouts and after hearing one I can understand why - so if you don't mind buying used, something to consider. I know the old Scouts are built like tanks and will easily last a decade.

I like the PLX-1000 and think it's competitive, if you're lucky enough to get one without any QC issues. If you go this route just be sure to buy from somewhere with a liberal return/exchange policy.

Another table you might consider is the Marantz TT-15S1. They come with a cartridge that allegedly retailed for $900 alone at some point. I like the Marantz design because it combines many solid engineering principles.

 

Anyone ever see or hear the Music Hall Ikura turntable?

 

Since you're considering the Pioneer PLX 1000, why not scratch that one, and consider the Technics SL-1200 Mk 7 instead for around the same cash outlay. Better stock tonearm, better build quality, better quality control, better performance.

 

Buy a Pioneer PLX-1000 and a Nagaoka MP-150 or 200. Make sure you have warranty and good return policy.

Or try the new Technics 1500C and later swap the 2M Red stylus for a Blue one.

 

Mk7 plus cartridge under 1K?

 

Likely you could get a 2M Red or Blue or equivalent and sneak under $1000 US.

 

This one is possibly a good deal:
The Funk Firm Little Super Deck, MINT, NIB, 60% OFF LIST! | Turntables | New York, New York 10028 | Audiogon

I know Music Direct sold these for ~$2K not long ago.

 

Thank you, the Technics does look nice. I lost track of when that was coming out but it appears soon.

 

Around $1000 is ok

 

The problem with having to manually shift a drive belt in order to change speeds is not limited to 45 rpm singles. It also applies to 45 rpm LPs. It’s a pain that becomes an aggravation that becomes a chance to damage the plinth or bang into the tonearm or fumble the platter each time it’s lifted to change speeds. Looks are less important than performance and I don’t personally think that the MMF 5.3 delivers sufficient value for its price. The basic Pro-ject tonearm supplied with the turntable is okay but by no means remarkable.

With apologies to any SHFers who own and use the 3.3, it’s not a particularly good turntable. It’s competent, it functions reliably, but its tonearm and motor and plinth are not something that will carry anyone satisfactorily into the future. It does not reliably hold speed.

It’s just an inexpensive offering from Pro-ject. Its principle distinction is that it is unremarkable, and does not reliably hold speed. A bit of noise from the spindle bearing indicates that the assembly is not one of Pro-jects best efforts.

I’m not sure why you have a concern about captive phono cables, but it’s really not something to be wary of. The P3, IMO, is the best of this bunch along with the Pioneer PLX1000, but the P3 is a better musical performer. To my ears, and with a wider range of cartridges, the Rega P3 is a remarkable turntable. It’s Neo power supply unit helps elevate the P3 above many others, its tonearm is excellent, and its silent motor and bearing outperform many, many others. It’s a terrific music maker.

The PLX1000 has a strong following on SHF and other forums and for a variety reasons. It’s a relatively good music maker, but it’s also highly versatile because of all of its adjustability. However, I think Pioneer put more effort into features and functions for the tweakers than it did in the musicality of the design. Choose the Rega.

I had a long audition and review period with the MoFi Ultradeck (the Studiodeck’s upscale brother). I like it a lot, but I think the Studiodeck isn’t quite up to the performance standard set by the Rega P3. My brief look at the Ultradeck revealed a spindle bearing that exceeded the mechanical noise limit I allow for turntables in this prices range.

Not really, because all of the other turntables at or around $1000 are sideways moves. At this price point - $1000 - turntable designs contain a surprising number of compromises. I think the one with the fewest compromises is the Rega P3 with its wonderful RB-330 tonearm and Neo PSU. It’s a turntable I could live with for a very long time. Have your dealer install either a Rega Exact or an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge and don’t look back.[/QUOTE]

 

Would avoid the 2M Red, even as a starter cart. It’s pretty disappointing.

The Blue is much better, as is the Nagaoka mp-110. Best of all would be a Naga mp-150, for only slightly more than the 2M Blue (about $250).

The Exact is a very nice cart for Rega ‘tables, but is considerably overpriced in the US ($600; it’s only $325 in the UK).
.

 

I think the Rega P3 with Neo PS option would be close to $1400 in the US, but maybe you could get a better deal as a package with the Neo and a cartridge too.

 

Thank you for the info! I realize I am compromising at this price level, and that may be a good way to look at it, which one has the least compromises? I don’t think the Neo PSU comes with the P3, but that could be something to add later.

 

Or just save a little bit more and go for the P6, which comes with a Neo PSU and metal subplatter.

 

Yes, that’s one thing about the Planar 3... it’s very ‘moddable’.

You can add a PSU later, or improved sub-platter, platter, belt, arm wiring, etc. It’s a popular audiophile ‘table, so there’s a good number of aftermarket mods for it, should you want to go in that direction later on.

But the stock ‘table is still good on its own, aka “ain’t chopped liver.”
.

 

[/QUOTE]

I agree with this regarding the musicality of a Rega vs the PLX. The latter has a direct-drive sound quality, which may appeal to some, but for me, it lacks that toe-tapping quality that I've heard in other Regas and belt-drives. For that reason, I prefer my old Thorens to the PLX, despite the higher noise floor.

As for the Music Halls, I don't think I'd touch any below the 7.3.

Agree with this too. Save a little longer, it'll be well worth the wait. It seems to me that most $1K tables perform more similar to $500 tables than the ~$1500 tables.

 

I agree with this regarding the musicality of a Rega vs the PLX. The latter has a direct-drive sound quality, which may appeal to some, but for me, it lacks that toe-tapping quality that I've heard in other Regas and belt-drives. For that reason, I prefer my old Thorens to the PLX, despite the higher noise floor.

As for the Music Halls, I don't think I'd touch any below the 7.3.



Agree with this too. Save a little longer, it'll be well worth the wait. It seems to me that most $1K tables perform more similar to $500 tables than the ~$1500 tables.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Helom, I’m sure thats true, I’ve read enough of these threads. Its just that I’m itching to play some of my LPs on a consistent basis

 

I think the Rega P3 is a safe bet as long as you buy from a good dealer. OTOH, this Funk Firm LSD (was that intentional? ) really does normally retail for near $2600. I'd be very tempted to take a gamble on this open-box example, apparently they're open to offers:
The Funk Firm Little Super Deck, MINT, NIB, 60% OFF LIST! | Turntables | New York, New York 10028 | Audiogon

Original price:
FUNK FIRM - LITTLE SUPER DECK TURNTABLE | Shop Music Direct

This guy rarely bestows a 9/10 rating on analog components:
LITTLE SUPER DECK FROM FUNK FIRM + FX3 - The Audiophile Man

Of course it doesn't come with a cart but the tonearm is highly versatile with its adjustable effective mass. So you can use it with almost any cart. You could get a $100 Nag, Grado or AT cart to hold you over while saving for something better. That's the route I'd go if it were my $$$$.

 

Of the bunch you're considering I agree that the P3 is likely the best performer although for what you're paying compared to streaming digital it's really just the "skinniest kid at fat camp". Using a $400 Bluesound Node2 source and Tidal or Qobuz hi-res will blow it away. I had a P3 with an Ortofon Bronze 2M and couldn't live with it long. Besides what it lacked in sonics, its inability to easily accommodate setup adjustments like tonearm VTA and azimuth drove me crazy. I agree with those who are encouraging you to save up a bit and get something used for perhaps $1500-$2000 that will be much more rewarding, especially when compared to digital.

 

It isn't in the US yet , but perhaps monitor the reaction to (and ask the gang at MD about) the new Pro-Ject X1 (X2 as well for stretched budget). Heinz from Pro-Ject seems really proud of it. I'd favor it over the Carbon Classic and it's Ortofon Silver cart and carbon-only arm, I think. I don't think the MH 3.3 seems like a great value compared to the 5.3 or 2.3, but I certainly might be wrong. I think (in the US) it's supposed to have the cartridge linked in the cart review.

PRO-JECT X1 Review: X marks the spot | 7Review

https://www.sumikoaudio.net/ContentsFiles/7118 SoundStageAccesscom Sumiko.pdf

Politely responding to the more learned posters about the notion that you'll inevitably and absolutely have to upgrade.... Well, maybe yes, maybe no. That would seem to depend on the person and his objectives. I'm rather atypical in that I've had the ol' Pro-ject 1.2 for 21 years. Threw on a Grado Red cartridge and liked the basic sound, got a modest separate phono stage and liked it better, bought another Red last year, etc. Would I like a new one? Sure. But I listen and think, "dang, not bad- not bad at all" and old Mr. Perspective steps in and says "wait till it breaks".

I don't do high res digital (not important to me), so I can't speak to the comparison with that. I only know that I definitely prefer my vinyl versions to the same album on CD. Sometimes it's close, sometimes really close, but vinyl wins most of the head-to-head battles, often fairly easily. There's more "there" there. More flow. More body, more soul.

Have fun in the search. Take some deep breaths. Don't obsess over brand. They all have their pros and cons.

 

Thanks Speed, I’ll take a look at that Pro-ject X1