Any info on the state of Motown's masters?

Would love Motown to re-issue the first two Rare Eath LPS as a two-fer again plus the "In Concert" release.

 

I gave this to my brother, so I can't confirm this, but I remember the notes saying that the Detroit mix was made by a Motown engineer while Marvin was out in LA doing work for a movie. Later, he had the tapes flown out to him, and he and someone else made a new mix themselves, the one that made it on the final album. Do the notes say this, and if they do, are they wrong or telling just part of the story?

 

The "original mix" that we have known for all these years was remixed in California by Lawrence Miles, and I think Art Stewart may also have been involved, under Marvin Gaye's supervision. The recently released "Detroit mix" is interesting and nice to have, but the "original mix" is the real thing.

MMM

 

Whitfield--Temptations.

Awesome music --

Cloud Nine.. What an album.

All Directions. 11:45 Papa Was A Rolling Stone. 'nuff said

Masterpiece.. 13:49 of sonic bliss.

Funky, soulful, rhythmic, tuneful, great harmonies. Social commentary. Transcendent stuff, IMO.

 

The notes are correct. Motown pressured Marvin to remix the album because they thought it was too "weird" and didn't fit the Motown mold.

The final mix still has Marvin's approval, but it was a compromise. To me, after hearing the original mix, the released version sounds too "toned down" or white-washed. The sound quality of the Detroit mix is fantastic! The final mix is smeared and lacks real dynamic impact. But, if it's all you have ever heard, you just won't know.

For those who don't prefer the Detroit mix, i'd like to hear why.

 

Is this the bonus material on the Motown 'Deluxe' edition? Ive never heard the original mix and would like to pick that one up if that's the one.

 

I posted why I don't prefer it in an earlier post. Whatever's your cup of tea, either mix has its merits.

 

Yes.

 

Well, I guess I missed it. I'll scroll back.

 

Ken,

Interesting points!

I would add Marvin Gaye's I Heard It Through The Grapevine and Diana Ross & the Supremes' Someday We'll Be Together as near perfect Pop records for Motown. Remember, at the time, a lot of young people who were over the age of 14 thought the Jackson Five was Motown's entry into Bubblegum. I was 18 when the Jackson Five hit the scene and I clearly remember people in my age group saying that their material was definitely being marketed at a pre-Teen audience. The Jackson Five were fun, well-produced, well-recorded and well marketed but hardly artistic cutting edge. I still enjoy their recordings and record their music in compilations from the period.

Bob

 

Personally, I think this era came to a culmination (and for all intents and purposes an end) with "The Corporation" productions of the Jackson 5. "I Want You Back" is about as perfect as pop music gets.


I couldn't agree with you more!!! "I Want You Back" for my money is still the most exciting three minutes of music ever pressed into vinyl!!!

 

Jeff,

While I liked the "Five" in 1969 and still do, I do not consider them "cutting edge" but more well-marketed, produced, recorded, packaged and perfectly aimed at the then pre-Teen market. Wow! did it work. To me, they always seemed like a modernized and a high octane version of Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers. The concept was not new, just very well updated. Maybe, if I was 12 when they hit the scene, I would view them in a different historical light, but I remember Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers and little Michael borrowing his dance moves from James Brown and Jackie Wilson. Their spot in history is well preserved!

Bob

 

Bob,

New concept or not you couldn't deny that at 11 years old Michael could sing circles around any similarly packaged and marketed group. In fact people have using the J5 as the template for all of the male vocal groups that have materialized in the last 15 to 20 years. Unfortunately none of them had the raw talent of the Jackson 5. Michael Jackson like a lot of other great artists before him have borrowed from their influences then found their own unique style in it. You could say that Stevie Ray Vaughn was just copying Albert King, or the Stones were biting Chuck Berry early in their career. Ultimately what I'm trying to say is, there hasn't been anything totally original on the music scene for a very long time. The difference between them and many contemporary artists is that many of today's artists really don't know much of the people that originated a particular sound or style. As time passes by, that particular style gets more and more watered down. So any musician claiming to be original should take a hard look at themselves. It takes a great deal of hard work to be considered an original, rather than standing on the shoulders of others.

 

Rap music may be about sampling other people's music but you can rest assured that it was an original idea born in the late 60s and that it has NOT been watered down! It's just gotten harder!

Folks, I don't keep bringing up rap because I'm a big fan of it. I like quite a bit of classic rap just as anything else. It is not part of my regular listening but it really does deserve more serious mention and discussion as a musical form just as rock, soul, jazz, country, or whatever, without the cursory, negative swipe against it and it's constituents. Like it or not, it IS part of our American musical culture.

 

Grant,

I have read that historically the first Rap record was The Madison Time by the Ray Brown Trio from 1961. Certainly, I have the recording and it many ways, it is Rap. One of my favorites from that era.

Bob

 

I don't know if all rap artists felt the same way, but when a lot of those early rap classics were released in the early 80's, a few rap artists saw sampling (at least how they did it) as a way of reclaiming black music. In some older interviews I've read, a few saw it as taking away music that was controlled, shaped, and distributed by a white-controlled media, deconstructing it by cutting it up, remixing it, dubbing over it, and completely restructuring it, and then handing it back as if they were saying, "This is what I'm saying, this is where I'm coming from."

 

Jeff,

Personally, I like Michael's recordings better after he got older and his music evolved. No denying his talent, regardless of age! I just wish he had not gotten so eccentric.

Bob

 

I feel the same way. (SIGH)

JH

 

I recall this, Matt.

Back in the early 80s, many complained that acts like Shalamar, the Whispers, Ashford & Simpson, and scores of others were too slick, or to use another term, "whitewashed", that the soul or "blackness" was removed to make it palattable for white acceptance. Many blamed disco for kilkling off the success of cherrished soul artists like Johnnie Taylor, the O'Jays, and AWB. These artists either stuck to their guns and ignored disco, or jumped on the disco bandwagon in the attempt to survive and got rejected by their core audience.

Rap was the way many sought to claim back the heart of "black" music. It had grit, sex, and was from the community. It is the very reason I think so many whites, religious blacks, and upper scale blacks condemned it. Actually, that last part of it should be discussed elsewhere.

 

Ken,

For some reason I have always preferred ABC and I cannot tell you why?...just feel, I guess!

Bob

 

ABC is my least favorite. I never much cared for "Going Back To Indiana" and "The Love You Save".

 

Grant,

Actually my favorite Jackson Five track is Dancing Machine but that was past their "kids" stage.

Bob