Ive listened or demoed an ELP about 10 or so years ago at a shop in Pittsburgh and didnt particularly like the sound of it. I used a Hiroshima 12" single for testing and while it reproduces the sound well, it added unwanted high frequency noise to parts of the song. I was unsure of what caused this but it was mostly during quiet passages at the beginning and end of the side. It kind of reminded me of a low bit rate DAC, that upper frequency noise you get. Anyways, if that and the pesky thing picking up small particles of lint and stuff on the surface of records was solved id be on the laser turntable train without a doubt.
If some massive improvement were made to laser turntables, I would be into it. But as the technology currently stands - which is much as it stood 20 years ago - it’s not really appealing. And the age of any company putting serious R&D into a purely analog device is long gone. If a new contactless playback system is devised, it will likely use digital imaging technologies and AI, not an advanced form of the analog laser optics in the ELP turntable. I’d rather see some modern material science applied to a more traditional cartridge design. Carbon nanotube cantilevers, anyone?
Well, if you drive the laser in an analog way and pick up the laser reflections with something like a phototransistor in an analogue circuit, the process is analog. However, most people who own modern equipment don’t even have an analogue setup for playing records. Nowadays, almost every device contains a microcontroller to do the electrical operations. You have to check every audio component you buy if it’s analogue or not. In most cases you have to open up your equipment and follow the pcb traces to see if there’s digital crap involved - or measure the output for quantization noise.
Mr. Rom92 in regards to your comments about applying high-technology materials for cartridges. Cartridge materials technology has gone backwards. 35 yrs. ago AT had a very sophisticated MM line of cartridges that's been discontinued. The top models featured gold plated boron "pipe" cantilevers that had a square hole bored by a laser for the square shank microline nude stylus. These cartridges had their own unique body and stylus assembly that does not interchange with any of the other "clunky" AT 100 series cartridges sold now. Best of all the price wasn't outrageous like it would be if available now. Mr.Rom 92 I know it's difficult for you to comprehend this since you weren't born yet. Carbon nanotube cantilevers! you funny guy!
What I forgot to add was the most sophisticated expensive cartridges in the world now don't feature boron "pipe" cantilevers because they are unobtainable. However 35 yrs ago a relatively inexpensive MM cartridge that could be had for around $200 used a boron pipe cantilever, imagine that!
I had no idea these existed and thought of this idea in the last week or so. My gut feeling says that while they will prevent wear, they will not sound as good as a conventional TT. I think they might have the ability to sound close (perhaps better though I kinda doubt you can better the real thing but could be wrong), but one that did would be very costly as I think mechanical vibrations would need to be minimized even more so than in conventional TT and that is not cheap. This needs to be a very precise instrument made to very high tolerances.
For me to be interested, it would need to play back an LP flawlessy with no artifacts or other colorations of the sound. And it would need to cost less than $2000.
I’m very familiar with where cartridges have gone in the past and where they’re currently at. $200 35 years ago is just short of $500 today once you account for inflation of the US dollar. But even in that price range, few modern carts offer anything more than a simple aluminum cantilever, which is a shame. Carbon is known for its incredible rigidity relative to its mass. In other words, exactly what you would want from an ideal cantilever material, so maybe the concept isn’t as far-fetched as it’d seem.
While there are traditional carbon fiber cantilevers, I could not find any carbon nanotube cantilevers(yet). Wilson incorporates carbon nanotubes into this TT arm. Nanotube One Tonearm – Wilson Benesch Start about 25:30
The mono-bloc ceramic cantilever and transducer technology could have the potential for a step change in (mechanical) cartridge development. X-quisite │ Technology
You mean the IRENE technology, which is in use by several institutions, including the US Library of Congress? Going by several website posts, this is indeed very cool and interesting technology, especially for audio preservation from old and obsolete physical mediums. Understanding IRENE
i saw this thread and it brought me back to the late 70's when they were first talking about laser turntables and how they would do no wear and tear on vinyl. i am assuming they never came to fruition from reading this thread.
Wasn’t even specifically referring to or thinking of IRENE, though it is a neat system! I’m just thinking in the hypothetical sense, in some far-off future development of a consumer level product. It probably won’t be something achieved with advanced electronics purpose built for the task, it will be high resolution digital imaging with off-the-shelf components and code.
Maybe I’m wrong but wouldn’t removing stylus contact remove the whole essence of the “vinyl” sound that so many love. Dead resonances, dead sound.
The Laser player could be interesting, IF it would sound better than a conventional TT of a similar price, IF the technology would be robust, IF it is not sensitive to particulates on the record, IF it does not need a phono stage, ... To develop and mature such a new technology would take a bigger outfit with sufficient resources and I don’t see any major audio company willing to invest in an uncertain technology and uncertain market, because many analog fans just like all these things about a TT construction and are not waiting to replace it for another box with gimmicky lights in their stereo?
You all bring up good, and funny points. The ELP turntable is what caught my interest when first reading about it many years ago. The claim of the laser reading deeper into the groove is intriguing, but alas, dirt and imperfection in the medium is the conundrum. The laser turntable would need some serious click software for mainstream acceptance, then what’s the endgame? I guess why try and reinvent peanut butter and jelly, or burgers and fries. One less “component” we need to worry about.
This is what I've heard from people who have experience with the laser tt. The lack of physical contact and the associated colourations result in a thin and compressed sound.
So therefore, the issue raised by the OP is answered: a vinyl album can be placed in a Laserdisc player and played without a stylus - and you don't even have to fold the disc over or shrink it in the clothes dryer to fit it in the drawer...
You just want to bring up Audio Laserdiscs, don’t ya. Hi-Fidelity Audio Laserdiscs! Analog audio read by a laser...
Haha! No, I'm just looking to play vinyl LP's (non-contact), which don't seem to fit in a conventional CD player. Reading the instructions that came with the player, you have to use CD's... Poor planning.
