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Any Pro Wrestling Fans Here? V2.0

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by sirmikael, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. MikeInFla

    MikeInFla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Panama City, FL
    I knew who he was but I did not watch NWA or WCW on TBS. To me, if it wasn't WWF it wasn't worth my time. BIG mistake on my part but hey, I was a 15 year old kid. I was fully wrapped up in Prime Time, Tuesday Night Titans and Saturday Night's Main Event. Nothing else mattered. It wasn't until years later I found AWA on ESPN Classic and went back on watched old WCW matches. As I have grown older I have grown to appreciate WCW, WCCW, AWA and the others. Ironic that I no longer watch or care about WWE.

    And I have gone back and watched some old Flair classics. Good stuff.
     
    Sammy Banderas, Matthew Tate and JCRW like this.
  2. JCRW

    JCRW Forum Resident

    Yep, exactly the same scenario for me. I know there is some good content that can be weeded out of WCW, but to me it was inferior to what WWF was producing at the time. I was also pretty thankful that Hulk Hogan headed over to WCW as it allowed other WWF talent that were being held back by the Hulkster to finally have their time and bring in the New Generation. Sad enough to say, I had to do a very similar take on Jerry "The King" Lawler in relation to Flair. I always saw Lawler as the perverted old announcer that screamed "PUPPIES" on the mic working alongside JR. When they would set up a story to get him in the ring with a current talent at the time I would cringe, I just didn't get him. You have to go back and watch his material from the 70's and 80's way before he arrived in the WWF to get the understanding and appreciation of The King. Thankfully this material is a lot more accessible to everyone now to dig back and really watch the evolution of wrestlers past.
     
  3. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Say what you want about Flair, but one can never say he was not a hard worker. Dude would party all night and then get up and doing cardio at the gym and wrestle for an hour that night. His work ethic was stellar, without a doubt.

    The 1992 Royal Rumble is rock solid proof that the announcers can sometimes make or break a match being a classic or not. If that match happened nowadays, with the same participants and events, I doubt the announcers of today would be so great as to elevate the match the way Monsoon and Heenan did.

    A slightly different slant is the WM3 main event. Classic match, still maybe the biggest one ever, and I think it benefited by Jesse Ventura not using his total heel " I hate Hulk Hogan" shtick that he often did in those days, as that might have taken a bit away from it. He still called the match as the heel color commentator, but was more even keeled than normal, and the match benefited from it big time.
     
    905, tonyc, MikeInFla and 2 others like this.
  4. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I don't know if you remember, but he 1992 Royal Rumble finish that aired the week after the PPV on TV was some of the worst editing and announcing ever. They overdubbed boos when Sid helped Flair eliminate Hogan and rerecorded the commentary track as well.
     
  5. JCRW

    JCRW Forum Resident

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the WWF has added their revisionist touch on all of those vintage matches. I remember watching The Undertaker/Hulk Hogan title match at Survivor Series 1991 and I could clearly hear the the fan reactions: Taker was getting cheered and Hogan a mixed bag. They have certainly gone back and touched up the audio to portray Taker as the heel, but the reality was Hulkamania was at it's end and I was happy at the time that the tide was turning.
     
    Matthew Tate likes this.
  6. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    not sure why jerry agreed to look like a fool or WWE told him to or whats up with his run in WWE
     
    Daniel Plainview likes this.
  7. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    It's really hard to connect the high-pitched "puppies" guy with the great Jerry Lawler of days of olde.
     
    noname74 and Matthew Tate like this.
  8. glennzo

    glennzo Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Monsoon and Venture did a top job in what was a pretty limited match really.
    I can always remember Jesse saying "I never thought it could be done Gorilla!" (after Hogan slammed Andre).
     
  9. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    It was always fun watching him on Memphis TV trying to twist what he was doing on WWF TV.
     
    Matthew Tate likes this.
  10. JamieC

    JamieC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Once upon a time the Financial News Network would run odd wrestling shows on the overnight with the financial crawl underneath. I was watching one night after Lawler lost a loser leaves town match to Bill Dundee in Memphis, Jerry suddenly showed up on Leia Maivia's NWA Hawaii TV as a loud mouth heel. Didn't see the whole run but I guess he was there for maybe 4-6 weeks.
    Of course Hawaii was a working vacation with the option of Australia or Japan.
     
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  11. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    The Flair vs Kerry Von Erich match from the FNN Hawaii show is maybe the best of their series of matches.
     
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  12. tonyc

    tonyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tennessee
    I remember seeing Lawler in the main event at the Nashville fairgrounds in 1994. It was strange seeing him as a face and being portrayed as trying to save his promotion from takeover by the WWF.
     
    WarEagleRK likes this.
  13. glennzo

    glennzo Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Speaking of Hogan/Andre, I don't think I'd seen their match at Shea Stadium in 1980.
    For WM3 they made a big deal about whether Hogan could slam Andre, conveniently ignoring this match in true WWF style.

    Andre is more mobile here and has a wild mane of hair.
    The ref's theatrics after a knockdown are hilarious!

     
  14. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    thoughts on RVD? Did he deserve a place in the WWE hall of fame?
     
  15. tonyc

    tonyc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tennessee
    Wow, Vince as ring announcer. Never seen that before. Classy Freddie Blassie was the best!
     
    Matthew Tate likes this.
  16. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Hillbilly Jim, Koko Ware and Vince Sr's limo driver are in their hall of fame, so really anyone is eligible.
     
    Matthew Tate likes this.
  17. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    I don't think the fans were as tired of Hogan so much as they were tired of the good guys who tried to get pushed as "good and pure" good guys. Heck, even Steamboat got booed a bit in the '89 feud with Flair when it was supposed to be "Steamboat the family man good guy" vs "Flair the cheating hustler." You could argue that Austin was the first true heel who was booked and cheered as a face in '97 after his WM turn, but the build to that had been coming for years. Heck, during the end of his heel run in WCW, Hollywood Hogan was getting cheered more than the face Hogan was for a long stretch before his sabbatical prior to his return at the Bash in '96 (when he had the heel turn). The fans no longer just cheered for the good guys and booed the bad guys on command.
     
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  18. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    91 and 92 saw the wrestling fanbase drop off from its peak a couple of years earlier so much where eventually by 93 and 94 it was a lot like today you were left with mostly the diehards. You get a louder response for the hardcores favorites which means Hogan's cheers got quieter.
     
    905 likes this.
  19. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    true. i just meant his wrestling style or impact on the business
     
  20. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    In a legit hall of fame, I don't think he is a candidate. 1st ballot ECW hall of fame though. WWE Hall is based on whoever is on good terms with the company at the time and if they meet what they are looking for that particular year so really anyone who worked there is a candidate.

    He was good, his matches with Jerry Lynn were great. He was super over in WWE, far more than they pushed him.
     
  21. JCRW

    JCRW Forum Resident

    Hogan still had some fans cheering for him but it was certainly not the level of pops he was receiving during the Hulkamania period of the 80's. His act was beyond stale and he eventually had to step away to deal with the steroid scandal. Then he comes back thinking he can pull off the same old song and dance and expect the crowd to be behind him 100%, but it was lukewarm at best and the smart fans detested what he pulled off to screw over a number of the new generation talents (Bret Hart, Yokozuna, Sid Justice). I will say it was a smart move for Hogan to go over to WCW and eventually turn heel with the Hollywood Hulk Hogan persona but even then he became his own worst enemy and was a big contributor to that promotion falling apart.

    All I can say is thank god Hogan left and we got one of the best Wrestlemania programs as a result X. Although afterwards we got some hot garbage including one of my most hated individual wrestler segments ever (Shawn Michaels Heartbreak Hotel).
     
  22. JamieC

    JamieC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Seriously???
    Putting aside that I have known Rob for 25 years, when I look at his work starting at the green beginning, through his indy and Japanese tours, his stint as "Robbie V" and his massive run in WWF/E, and in TNA. I see the most innovative worker in my time.
     
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  23. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    I don't see how Hogan screwed over Sid or Yokozuna. Both of those guys had been with the WWF for a very short time when they had their brief programs with Hogan, so it's not like either had earned the right for the face of the company for the last 9-10 years to put them over without a pause. I can see the case being made for Bret, even if I agree with the logic that a Hogan/Bret face vs face match wouldn't have worked well at all.

    But, yes, Hulkamania had run its course in the WWF, and it was time for new blood, but it's just too bad that Shawn and his buddies treated it like their own personal playground. Michaels is obviously one of the best in-ring performers ever, but I have never liked him. Always seemed like a terrible guy in general (and most reports indicate this was true during his peak run).
     
    JCRW likes this.
  24. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Just my take, but yes seriously.

    Legit halls of fame are for the best of the best and RVD isn't at that level to me. For a couple of years during his peak he might have approached that level but never sustained it. In the WWE hall of fame, sure but it's a joke of a hall. If ECW had a hall he is 1st ballot. However to compare to other sports he's a beloved multi time all star player who was the MVP of a midmarket team who went on to have a long strong career. He's the great Indy band who signed with a major label who had a hit or two bit the major label really didn't understand how to promote him like the indy label did.

    As far as innovation goes, he created a few cool moves (2 of them involved chairs that caused a few concussions over the years so not necessairly the most long term healthy innovations) but beyond that he had good sometimes great matches with the right opponents and was an average promo at best. He is someone who benefited greatly by Heyman's great editing skills in ECW.

    Plenty of his peers were more innovative like Mysterio as far as his early work goes, Jericho as far as constantly reinventing himself and Danielson as far as unique match styles with different opponents.
     
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  25. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Always remember Sid always was the one who screwed Sid. He was always super over but would magically get injured around the time of softball season. He walked out of the WWF twice during massive pushes and almost murdered a beloved wrestler in a fit of rage and tried to attack another with a squeegee.
     
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