Any Pro Wrestling Fans Here? V2.0

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by sirmikael, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
  2. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    All top stars protected themselves and their spot. Flair was just as productive of his spot in the 80s and early 90s as Hogan was.

    I think had Warrior gone on to be all that Vince hoped he would, no one would have cared about how Hogan acted post-match, although the irrational hate some younger fans who never saw him in wrestle in real time have is bizarre. I always crack up when someone trashes him for supposedly no-selling a move be "hulking up" (while failing to realize that that was part of his character when a face; notice how he almost never did it when a heel), and then talks about how much they love The Undertaker, whose "sit up" move was basically the same thing.
     
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  3. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
  4. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I completely disagree about Flair. He was so unselfish as a performer that it was to his own detriment especially in his prime years. While Hogan was winning clean and strong almost every night, Flair was giving his opponents 80% of the match and when he would win it was cheating to protect his opponent. That was the role of the traveling world champion as the hometown babyface had to come back the next week where Flair would be in another territory.

    It wasn't until 1990 when WCW wanted Luger to win the title when Flair promised the title to Sting who was out with an injury that I ever heard Flair saying no about losing a match.

    I have no issues with the Hulking Up except when he would do it immediately after Savage's elbow or Vader's powerbomb. At least wait until the 2 count to do it.
     
  5. sons of nothing

    sons of nothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois
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  6. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
  7. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Eh, I think you forgot that while Hogan in his prime would almost always "hulk up" and win, he would often get dominated for much of the match. He always gave his opponents a lot. And he didn't start kicking out of the finishers immediately until later on. He didn't kick out of the Savage elbow until the 2 count at WM5 (he did get it up from it right away at SS89 in the tag match, but Savage didn't go for the pin after hitting it). And stuff like that looks like nothing nowadays when finishers are kicked out of on a regular basis.

    In the case of Flair cheating to win, that was generally the role of the heel champ. As a sidebar, I always liked it when a top heel would beat a top face cleanly. It made the win seem that much more important. Take Sting/Vader at the Great American Bash '92. Vader beating Sting clean in the middle of the ring made him seem that much awesome as a champ (just a shame that his reign was short-lived). On the flip side, a top face having to cheat to beat a top heel, in essence beating them at their own game, was always great to see as well. Savage pulling the trunks to beat Flair at WM8 was great in that regard. That post-match interview to that always cracked me up, as Heenan sat there complaining about it left and right, while Flair played it off like, "who cares, I will be back."
     
  8. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Didn't forget that at all. Hogan matches were 5 minutes of him killing his opponent, heel cheats and gets the edge and dominates for 5 minutes, Hogan hulks up and wins. Rarely if ever did the heel leave the feud stronger than he came in. Hogan didn't give enough to make stars and they just cycled in a new heel. Savage and Piper were exceptions. Piper would never let Hogan win.

    I used Savage's elbow and Vader as the only issue I had with hulking up when he would take the finisher and immediately hulk up.

    Even worse in WCW when Savage gave Hogan the elbow as his partner to wake him up.

    I don't compare the way people sell today vs back then as the game is so different. I try to enjoy it in the moment.

    I love Vader vs Sting matches and that one was great. I remember being shocked at the result because not many expected Vader to win on a show that was mostly just for a tag tournament and nobody expected a clean finish.
     
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  9. JCRW

    JCRW Forum Resident

    The "hulking up" aspect was not what bugged me, it was always what came afterwards that was annoying because 99% of the time it was the same result: Finger Wag, shake off punches, point, Finger Wag, block a right, punch, punch, punch, Irish whip, boot to the head, legdrop and the win. Yes, almost every wrestler has a similar comeback structure including Undertaker's "sit up". But there was always a bit more variance to his final move sets to end a match including his finishing move that changed throughout his career (Tombstone, Last Ride, Hells Gate) and he sure didn't win as much as the Hulkster.

    Although I have never been a fan of Hulk Hogan I do have to give him credit for getting the most out of the Ultimate Warrior in their Wrestlemania VI match. Especially considering the fact that Warrior refused to listen to other talent and would just run in and do his own thing with no concern for his opponent's safety in the ring.
     
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  10. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Hogan only had one territory. He had to make the heels seem like a threat. Not easy with a monster face.
    Flair, especially in the territory years, had to leave the local hero strong. The fans there would have to know that their boy SHOULD be world champ. He made everyone he faced look like a world beater. Oooh. He had to cheat or get disqualified to get out of town with the strap.
     
  11. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Popeye writ large
     
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  12. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    I get what you are saying about Hogan dominating portions of the bout, but remember that he was booked and billed as the unstoppable babyface hero, so he couldn't exactly go out there and get mauled in every match and then always pull the comeback. Sometimes he had to look strong for a lot of the match. It fit the character.

    Did Piper ever let anybody beat him? Aside from the face vs face loss to Bret Hart at WM8 and then allowing Jericho to pin him in the legends match at WM25, I don't recall ever seeing Piper lose by pinfall or submission. As entertaining as he was, his matches were hard to look forward to because you knew it was almost always going to be a brawl that ended in a DQ or count-out.

    Regarding Hogan's finishing move set, I never liked the way in his last few years he would stop to pose and do the ear thing to the crowd in between the boot to the face and the legdrop. To me, the brilliance of the 3 punches/boot to the face/legdrop move set was that it happened quick enough to stun your opponent to get the 3 (rather than it being like the RKO or flying elbow, finishers that you could get a 20 count). Now, I get it, Hogan was working the crowd, but it took a bit of believability away from the move. Same thing with Flair late in his career who would often just slap the figure four on someone at a moment's notice, when back in the day he would take his time working the leg to where if he finally got the figure four applied, it felt more earned.
     
  13. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    he listened to macho man, rick rude and million dollar man for sure. I think sgt slaughter too
     
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  14. JCRW

    JCRW Forum Resident

    I bet he listened to Rick Rude after he cleaned Warrior's clock backstage LOL. I think Warrior respected Macho Man for his in ring abilities but he had beefs with him and many other wrestlers. The only other guy I remember him talking about respecting was The Undertaker, even though he had a hard time understanding why Taker no-sold Warriors moves haha.
     
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  15. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    yeah seems a few guys either straight just liked warrior or you just hated him. no in between. if what they say about how warrior was and what he was about I totally get why he was the way he was and why people didn't like him.
     
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  16. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Pre-WWF run, Piper would lose often to people like Flair and Steamboat.

    In the WWF he only lost via pinfall to Hart and Curt Hennig that I know of. The Mr. Perfect loss was in a dark match on a TV taping in Syracuse in 1990 when Piper was mostly a commentator and later released on a Piper DVD.

    At some point in the mid 90s Flair stopped working the leg prior to the figure four as much as he used to. I guess it's the difference in working 10-15 minute matches vs 25-30 minute matches. However, I agree it took away from the match when he would just throw it on without working the leg.
     
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  17. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    It also seemed that the vast majority were on the side that didn't like him. Kerry Von Erich and Owen Hart are the only ones who seemed to be his friends.
     
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  18. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    which is funny as owen had the same mindset as warrior, its a business get your money and get out. warrior though didn't obviously put in the work in the ring like owen did
     
  19. JCRW

    JCRW Forum Resident

    Who didn't get along with Owen? I mean, Stone Cold had the obvious grudge with him for the broken neck but he didn't despise the guy. Seems like Owen was too upbeat and carefree to get into the backstage politics. Is there stories about him ribbing The Ultimate Warrior? I know about the Mr. Perfect one which is unpleasant but still pretty funny too.
     
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  20. WarEagleRK

    WarEagleRK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
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  21. sons of nothing

    sons of nothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Illinois
    Yes. I saw many of his matches when he worked in IWA-MS and ROH. People used to throw rolls of toilet paper like streamers when he was wrestling in ROH. Sometimes he'd throw them back Evetuslly, ROH requested that fans stop throwing them!

    ROH always had great shows in Chicago Ridge. If you've never watched them, then you'd probably enjoy them.
     
  22. MikaelaArsenault

    MikaelaArsenault Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire
  23. MikeInFla

    MikeInFla Glad to be out of Florida

    Location:
    Kalamazoo, MI
    I finally got caught up on AEW last night. I saw a "squash" match that I enjoyed! MJF! That's what I was talking about when I said I used to enjoy seeing no-name jobbers get squashed fast back in the old days. And he is great on the mic. he knows how to work a crowd. I love MJF.
     
  24. AleYeah

    AleYeah Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    The Midnight Express squashing jobbers was a joy to behold.
     
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  25. AleYeah

    AleYeah Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    As a youngster in Western NC with no cable/satellite, I had no visibility-
    outside the Apter mags- to any WWF content until the original SNME came along. I enjoyed it to be sure, but it paled in comparison in my young mind to the NWA/WCW wrasslin I grew up on. (Still does, tbh.)
     
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