Any Serious Godfather fans out there?

Sounds legit...…..just doesn't make sense to me.

 

There's a lot of characters in these movies where I'm just yelling at the screen, "Just bank your millions and walk the hell away! Don't you understand how dangerous this is?" But they never listen to me.

 

No kidding!

 

Do you know the stories behind the real life organized crime figures, Mayer Lansky, Carlo Gambino, Lucky Luciano, Frank Costello, Vito Genovese, Longey Zwillman?

There are lots facts and facets of all these real life mobsters mixed into ALL of the Godfather's characters stew. If you really know the history of these real men you can readily see where Puzo and Coppola got a lot of their character inspirations/motivations.

In the Hyman Roth character, for instance there are broad, large elements of Mayer Lansky's life predominantly, for the most part. (Lansky was still alive when The Godfather was released,) But there are also small aspects of the real lives of Longey Zwillman, Carlo Gambino, and Vito Genovese.
IIRC even though Genovese knew he was dying of cancer, (when he died, in 1969 he was probably the most feared mobster in the US), he was still as vengeful at/of his perceived enemies at the end of his life as he was when he was just a young thug on the streets of NYC.

 

He can't. That's why the scene only makes sense if they were going to ALMOST kill him but not finish the job. Otherwise the "Michael Corleone says hello" lines makes no sense at all.

 

The late night call from Johnny to Fredo indicates that Rosatos want to know if Frankie is serious about a deal or is he "gonna bring his boys." Fredo blows him off as he already realizes he has been lied to. Adds to the confusion.

 

So they were going to *almost* kill him...but their fake assassination gets foiled by a policeman? This ain't tracking for me.

 

Bingo

 

I agree that it is hardly a small dunk where you watch the film for the 10th time and have an "A ha!" moment. But it's the only explanation that makes any sense (short of the idea that the filmmaker royally screwed up, which FFC's detailed notebooks suggest is a very unlikely possibility).

If they simply bump Frankie and Cicci off, the Rosatos gain some territory but Roth gains little. If Frankie and Cicci believe Michael has turned on them and sing, Roth has a potential trump card. If Cicci isn't there to hear "Michael Corleone says hello", he doesn't turn (not that his turn mattered because of, you know, buffers). So why say THAT lie and then kill Frankie?

 

So it's in the scene because some version of the script called for Michael to actually turn on Frankie? Seems very unlikely.

It's in the scene because FFC royally screwed up and allowed complete nonsense into his masterpiece? Equally unlikely.

What else explains it?

 

This was always unclear to me as well. I found this interesting page on it. No idea who wrote it or if they really know what they are talking about (seems like he does), but asking a lot of the same questions.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Micha...hen-he-knew-it-was-Roth-who-tried-to-kill-him

 

Francis was under pressure, overworked, and flying by the seat of his pants. This was one of 1,000,000 creative decisions that got away from him.

 

The first is the very pinnacle of cinema for me, the second is great but suffers for the obvious lack of Brando. Three is just average in my opinion.

I’ve read the book quite a few times over the years and always wish in two that they’d filmed the scenes where the young Vito warns Al Capone off from interfering in the fight for New York; that was such a great part of the book.

 

Roth all but confesses that he hates Michael when he waxes nostalgic about Moe Green and then discusses his death and how it was business. Clearly it was more as Moe looked up to him. So that is Roth's motive for wanting to do Michael in. The Rosato Brothers and their beef with Frankie is his opportunity. The cop is perhaps artistic license.

More troubling is who exactly pulled the curtains in Michael's bedroom and let the two hit men into the compound. Fredo? Beyond his capability.

 

Supposedly Danny Aiello ad libbed it so he would be paid more for having a speaking part.

The really crazy thing is that Coppola allegedly realized immediately it made no sense in the story, but kept it in anyway b/c he liked it

 

I always figured Fredo let in the men who let in (and later killed) the hit men. That doesn't answer the curtain question.

 

FFC knew that Michael had to be implicated in the "hit" on Frankie for the whole last third of the film to make sense. If Frankie thought it was the Rosato Brothers, why would he have flipped on Michael? The line sure appears to be crucial to the plot, rather than ad-libbed.

 

Fredo later claims that he did not know there was going to be a hit. He is resentful, but not so much to kill his baby brother. He just wants to feel like a player.

My vote is for Rocco Lampone.

 

Isn't be the one who

Spoiler

kills Roth, Jack Ruby-style?

How did they get him to be the patsy?

 

Agreed. I don't see it.

 

"micheal corleone says hello" - GangsterBB.NET

 

So Danny, in his bit part, knew that it had to appear to Frankie that Michael was behind the "hit" in order for the last third of the film to make sense? Something that FFC hadn't realized until that moment? A tough one to swallow for me.

 

So back to the curtains for a moment ...

If Fredo didn't open the curtains (he's not that dumb or disloyal to that degree, right?) and certainly didn't kill the hit men (well beyond his capabilities), what was his role in the hit that he didn't know would be a hit? I can't think of anything more than somehow allowing/sneaking individuals on to the property.

 

I think Michael wants Kay in much the same reason that the star quarterback wants to marry the head cheerleader. It's just a status thing. He doesn't love her, but he recognizes that she is part of the symbolic recipe of fulfilling the American Dream.

Also, Michael is driven by a fear of failure as well as an obsession to always be right. And if he lets Kay get away, then it'll be the biggest failure of his life; the one thing that everyone will be able to point to and say "You were wrong about her."

 

Fredo opened the curtains. But he didn't kill the hit men.

Fredo knew that something was going to happen, but he trusted Roth when Roth assured him that it would not be a hit. Maybe Roth said "Hey, we're just going to throw some bricks through the glass" or "We're going to send a messenger to meet with Michael" -- and Fredo was naive enough to believe it.