Any small Horn speaker? Horn speaker lovers. (Piano sound)

Hello,

As I study about speakers, I develop great interest in horn speakers.

It’s not mainstream mass market, and honestly, I didn’t have any knowledge before.

Personally, for Classical / Jazz music that are mainly for instruments, horn speakers have its charm.
(Distinctive sonic character, Fast Speaker - that I recently understand, Amp efficent)
Especially I try to find the piano sound, closer to the real piano sound - better.

The limitation for me is, most of them are huge and heavy by its nature.

Do you know any small size horn speakers? (Also except Klipsch - personal preference)

So far, what I find is,


1) Avantgarde Uno Fino - 121lbs (55kg) per unit

2) Cessaro Wagner - 242lbs (110kg)... yes it’s too big... please just leave this one as the reference

3) Odeon Helix - 112 lbs (51kg) per unit

... And it doesn’t look like the conventional horn (hybrid? I don’t know)

4) Horning Aristotle - 88lbs (40kg) per unit


Is there any other small - under 125lbs (56kg) size? Indeed it’s for a room size 14ft x 14ft (4m x 4m),
so, even smaller size would fit. (Later I might move this to 20ft x 15ft, but still not big.)

Problems are, all of them are very difficult to reach and get in my area.

For me living in SoCal USA (around LA), Odeon is completely unavailable.
This brand has really terrific speakers not just horn, and some history but somehow there are not many dealers.
It’s puzzling me when the brand like this doesn’t have many dealers, and no dealer in the US.
I heard this in Asia during my current business trip.

About Avantgarde, also I have no idea where I can find one. But I saw them in the US, so there should be a way.
Wish it could be a slightly smaller like Odeon Helix.

About Horning, I’m really curious, but can’t find one for audition.
There is a dealer in the US but not many. (So far two) There seems no way I can audition this.


In conclusion, Horn type speakers are hard to find. (Even in LA area... )

So far my speaker hunt starts from... (I could find most of major brands in Asian Hifi marketplace, major dealers are in the one place... Asian HiFi market is intriguing. Almost one stop shopping for almost all brands from $500-$500k.
Still no horn speakers...)

Focal/SF/B&W/Wilson/Revel and other mainstream brands

To -> Harbeth(30.1) / GrahamLS5/9 -> Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby/Brodmann(former Bosendorfer) VC2


Finding Piano sounds is a harder journey than I initially expect.


Cheers.

 

Zingali

 

Altec 2 Way Build ala JELabs - 802/32/414

Smaller Altecs like the one above can sound amazingly good.
I use a vintage pair of HeathKit AS 101 horn speakers. They are basically a set of Altec Valencias in nicer cabinets. Or possibly a set of Altec Model 14 speakers if you can find a nice set.
I used to use Klipsch Heresy's, than one day a buddy got a set of the Model 14 Altecs and I fell in love with the Altec sound and a two way speaker. Haven't looked back.
Sometimes newer isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

BillWojo

 

The Fleetwood Deville bookshelf speakers (though they are actually bigger than the typically bookshelf), made by the sister company of Oswald Mill Audio. The audio dealer (Reference Analog - which is the Oklahoma area) I buy from just made a video of them.
DeVille Loudspeaker | Fleetwood Sound Company by OMA

 

I think piano is very difficult to record let alone reproduce. Often, it is mic'd in such a way that it either sounds too small, or there is a lack of gravitas to the lower registers.
I have Avantgarde Duos-- I bought them just when Jim Smith was hanging up his mantle as their distributor. The U.S. distributor is based on Canada last I heard, and I know of one dealer in Florida who carries the line.
I don't know how the Uno would fare on piano-- I can tell you that two things dramatically improved the bass performance (not just deep bass but the lower registers where you'll hear the body of the instrument and its weight): one was the addition of multiple woofers and DSP to control the big subs, and the other was a change in cartridges-- from Airtight to Koetsu stone bodies. I always knew about the Koetsu "magic" in the midrange, but the heft of the bass, its tonality and dimensionality were attributes I had never fully appreciated from any cartridge and I've owned some very good cartridges over the years. You are going to need to be able to reproduce good bass (again, not just the deep stuff but in the lower mid-bass through the upper bass) to convincingly reproduce piano in my estimation.
My standard is a real piano- I did play for a long time and had some large concert grand pianos at home for a period of my life where I had the space to accommodate them. Getting the heft of a full sized Bosendorfer or big Steinway is not easy, but again, I think a lot of problems come from the recording itself.
One record I can recommend is Amina Claudine Myers Salutes Bessie Smith, the Leo U.S. pressing. The audiophile re-do doesn't have the mojo at all. Here's that record, not crazy money but probably not easy to find a truly clean copy:
Amina Claudine Myers - Salutes Bessie Smith (Vinyl, US, 1980) For Sale | Discogs
It has some of the most realistic piano I've ever heard on an LP.
I bought mine new at Tower back in the day.

 

I've loved the Volti Rival the couple times I've heard it and was just reading a very good review of their new smaller speaker the Razz.

The Volti Audio Razz Loudspeaker

I've also really liked Charney Audio and they have some smaller models this is the Companion Excalibur.

The Companion Excalibur

 

Small horns, like jumbo shrimp? I think my Cornwalls are fairly compact.

 

Can you describe the sound of the Fleetwood Devilles? Are they versatile to different genres or would I expect to really only love vocals and traditional "audiophile" music?

 

I haven't heard them yet actually. I know Jeff from Reference Analog spoke highly of them, and by inference, it sounds like a versatile speaker. But Jeff would be better to go over them with you and see if they would be something of interest. I heard the Fleetwood's are getting the Absolute Sound speaker of the year award, I think. They are a new speaker, so word is just getting out I think, especially without any audio shows in 2020 due to COVID. Here is Jeff's website below with his contact info and feel free to tell him I referred you if you wanted. Hope you find what you're looking for.

https://referenceanalog.com

 

Thanks. I've seen some media on these, but they are only a potential long term interest at this point based on the price. We currently have an old set of Shamrock Audio Eire speakers that I found for cheap on Craigslist that we're absolutely in love with, so I'm already thinking what would be a step up on these in the same vein (i.e., stand-mounted, solid wood construction).

 

I have Cessaro Wagner IIs on display in my studio and a set of Horning Aristotles arriving early 2021 if you find yourself on this side of the country.

 

Thank you. Again, it’s not even remotely available in my area.

 

Interesting idea. Sounds like Good Ol’ way.

 

Stunning. So far from America, I like this brand and Viking. Really curious how this one sounds in person.

Thank you for the video link, quite helpful. (In Asia, somehow I can’t access it so have to use VPN... heck Asian Gov’s censorship.)

 

Thank you for the LP suggestion, I plan to get into LPs next year. (Next year resolution.) Oh, and Koetsu. Highly regarded in Asia too.

I might need to clarify my question. From your Piano experience, how do you evaluate the reproduction of Piano Sound with Avantgarde Duos?

As you mentioned, I’ve learned that Piano sound is really tricky one.
So far, I’ve found VA and Brodmann (Bosendorfer) make satisfying piano sound. (It comes with the price.)

 

If you hear them, please share some joy.

From the youtube clip, it seems Fleetwood is taking a bit European style crisp horn sound vs comforting sound. (Don’t even know this is right distinction tho)

 

Hello, I checked out Golden Ear One R just couple days before. Superb speaker. I do think it’s the best all round player speaker considering the price range.
(Now I’m on urgent business trip, so my search is mostly online again.)

What I’ve felt very personally so far is,

1) There is no single speaker can do something best... since some characters can’t go together to the extreme degree.
Monitoring speaker like ATC and Genelec would provide neutral studio sound, but those are simply not what I want.
So, for me, I decide to have at least 2 speaker systems for the long run (1 for general purpose / 1 for specialty purpose - I want this part first.)

2) Horn - Comforting horn sound vs Acute horn sound (again personal), briefly most of later part fall into European builders. (Fleetwould might be exception.)
Both have charms, so again, can’t have the best of both world. Since comforting horn needs massive space, (incredibly expensive in SoCal) and due to personal preference I’m looking for the later. If you like horn speaker’s general sonic character, vocal / acoustic sound consist of wind, sting and brass instruments - horns have distinctive advantage. Personally I come to really love it. For me... Piano sound is still hit and miss with horn.


Fleetwood at least has a dealer in LA area. Would be fun to check out one day.

 

If you were my local, we already would be met couple times. Honestly, you are the only dealer (so far) who understands what I’m really talking about.

So, I totally respect and trust your recommendation. Still I want to see the speaker in person.

Hopefully the next year is less crazier than this one, then I am indeed interested in flying there.

 

No it isn't!

Small vintage Altec home speakers like the Valencia's are still some of the nicest horn speakers on the market today and they can be sourced very reasonably.

 

They are not cheap but I was very impressed with Oswald Mill's OMA-Mini loudspeaker:

 

For some reason, I'm reminded of something...

 

the horn shoppe

Not exactly true horn speakers IMO but they’re small.

 

As mentioned earlier, you may want to look at the Charney Audio Maestro speaker:
The Maestro

I have these in a small 10'x10' room and they sound great. I am driving these speakers with a 300b amp.