Anybody with cd/lp demagnatizer?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by jenkovix, May 25, 2016.

  1. jenkovix

    jenkovix Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Europe, Hungary
    Hi folks,

    does anybody posses here a cd and/or lp demagnatizer? There are numerous threads on the web can be found almost all with positive results (even Michael Fremer has an article on an lp demag device). If you do have have please share your experiences e.g. effect after demagnetizing, how long the demag would last, etc.

    Thank you
     
  2. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    I don't own one, and probably never will. With respect, the product does not make sense. Magnetism affects magnetic objects, so you demagnetise ferric tape heads. CD plastic and vinyl are not magnetic, so by virtue of their atomic structure are permanently demagnetised by their construction. CD/LP demagnatisers appear to have turned a scientifically sound practice (demag. tape heads) into snake oil because some audiophools will buy anything (speaking generally, not meaning to offend any SH members who have bought one). If there is compelling scientific research which demonstrates I don't have a reasonable understanding and am wrong, please share.
     
  3. Lester Best

    Lester Best Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bklyn NY
    Neither is magnetic regardless of what the hi end priests insist is a de rigeur ritual.
     
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  4. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I have read a lot of these threads and some claim the vinyl pigment contains "metal", I am not a chemist and I suppose that is what we need for a chemist to understand what makes up the vinyl.
    I have taken my bulk tape eraser and hovered it over my vinyl crate several times and the unit does not make any extra noise, vibrate or act like when I am demag a tape.....I also took my smaller tape head demag unit over vinyl and same nothing happened. Playing the vinyl after made no difference in sound either.....
    If you want to do this or feel it is of benefit, save the $3K that Furutech Demag unit costs and buy a bulk tape eraser off the bay for like $40....I think the process is the same. I have also seen general use demag units for sale that probably do the same process.....
     
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  5. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    I can't find the thread right now, but my daughter who is a phd. in chemical engineering and works for a BIG company in Baltimore (the magnetics department), tested some vinyl I gave her on a very expensive and very sensitive device that measures magnetism. The results were magnetism was present in the vinyl. My daughter says it was likely due to contamination in the vinyl.
     
  6. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I tend to agree, without seeing the results. I suppose the big question is what affect, if any, does this magnetism create on the vinyl and I can only assume the quantity is so low maybe it simply does not matter?
    There is some data on the Furutech website but I have no idea if that magnetism data is minuscule or huge. Regardless spending $3K on a demagnetizer seems gigantically excessive......IMHO
     
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  7. seed_drill

    seed_drill Senior Member

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    I would never buy such a product, even if I had unlimited funds, but I seem to recall Steve indicating that the carbon black added to the vinyl carries a very slight magnetic charge. It'd be an interesting experiment to try some clear records (Ryko Analog, for example), vs. a standard black pressing.
     
  8. seed_drill

    seed_drill Senior Member

    Location:
    Tryon, NC, USA
    If I had an extra three grand sitting around, I'd be buying a new turntable!
     
  9. DigMyGroove

    DigMyGroove Forum Resident

    You can quickly and cheaply hear the results of demagnetizing both records and CDs by using a cassette deck tape head demagnetizer, they go for around $20 on Amazon, same design as back in the 1970's, but the metal head has a red rubber coating (safer for your records in case of an accident).

    I'd read Michael Fremer's reviews of the pricey Furutech devices, and knowing that I would never spend that kind of money decided to give my old tape head demagnetizer a try. On either media I hover 1/4" or so over the surface and move the wand in and out from the center, as though I was drawing the petals of a flower. After going around a few times I slowly spiral out and away. Repeat these actions on the other side as well them play the record or CD, you will hear the difference!

    From what I've read it's the carbon black color added to the vinyl that adds the magnetism to records. On CDs it's the inked side of the disc (for the most part). When holding a CD and demagnetizing it you will feel that magnetic field for yourself. Knowing that the carbon black was affecting the sonics of the vinyl Classic Records did some pressings on what they called "Clarity Vinyl" which had no inherent magnetism. I purchased their Clarity Vinyl pressing of Ella Fitzgerald's "Clap a Hands Charlie" a few months ago, the vinyl is opaque and has a smoky lavender hue.
     
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  10. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Carbon, graphite colorant in records, is non-ferrous and can't be magnetized. Material scientists working with pure crystal or doped graphite are unable to replicate other experiments regarding magnetic properties using highly sensitive instrumentation and specially prepared samples, in fact it is non-carbon impurities attributed to any such indication.

    The idea that graphite might display permanent magnetism, or ferromagnetism, has remained controversial for at least a decade. Although several independent teams have hinted at the possibility through their experiments, it is well known that graphite possesses only weakly magnetic sp electrons and its Curie point is above room temperature so ferromagnetism seemed to be precluded from its repertoire of properties. The earlier research hinted, however, that imperfections in the graphite crystal lattice might underpin any demonstration of ferromagnetism.

    Static electricity charge is something that does actually happen with polyvinyl chloride (the "rub a balloon with fur" effect), but even the Zerostat gun sold by Needle Doctor is clever enough to not make claims that it does anything at all to the sound.

    Next we will worry about eddy currents in the metallic platter as it rotates through Earth's magentic field. This is pure snake oil; at least exotic hardwood headshell shims or oxygen-free copper brass cartridge screws at least offer plausible benefit.
     
  11. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    Yup...pretty much. Everything I have read on this tells me the level of magnetism must be so small that spending $3K on a device is un-wise use of funds..of course unless you just want to which is fine too. Furutech makes the machine because people are buying it........Even if there was benefit, that I could hear, a 1970's bulk tape eraser does the same thing for super cheap. Like I said in my other post, I have used my bulk eraser and hear zero difference in my system.
     
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  12. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    There was such a device advertised in aRuss andrews catogue. It was costing thousands !
    This kind of nonsense sickens me, infact the whole catalogue sickens. Me.
    Russ knows his stuff, but is greedy man, as are all the "snake oil merchants!
    People seem so gullible these days!
     
  13. Tom Adams

    Tom Adams Well-Known Member

    Location:
    NJ
    I find a demagnetizer indispensable for removing lint from my vinyl records before I put them away. I keep my records clean this way for years. I demag each side and then blast with an air can to blow off the lint that gets on them from my felt TT mat. Without demagnetizing, the lint does not come off. Records also benefit a little from removing static.
     
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  14. Lester Best

    Lester Best Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bklyn NY
  15. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Yeah, that is what my daughter said.
     
  16. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Too many people - at least too many people that I know personally - confuse a static charge on the surface of an LP or CD with a magnetic charge. The two things are very, very different.

    That there are impurities in vinyl blanks is absolutely true. But just because some of the impurities happen to be trace amounts of metal, it doesn't automatically mean the metal is capable of holding a magnetic charge. In order for a magnetizable metal to maintain a magentic field there has to be enough of it in one place to do so. If there was that much ferrous metal in any vinyl LP or polycarbonate CD, you'd have a lot more problems than just magnetism! Metalized mylar coatings on CDs use non-magnetic metal.

    This whole urban myth got started years and years ago when some boob assumed that a static charge and a magnetic charge are one and the same. They're not. The OP, and other people who buy into LP/CD demagnetizing nonsense, should have learned this in high school. You can wave a demagnetizer over, under, on and around an LP or a CD all day long and it won't make a bit of difference. That said, reducing or removing the static charge from an affected LP or CD will definitely help things, but you can't eliminiate a static charge by using a demagnetizer - the two things are unrelated.
     
  17. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I have a demagnetizing wand I used with my cassette deck when cassettes were a standard part of hifi kit. As I haven't played a cassette in years I would reluctantly consider passing it on to another audio appreciator for a reasonable AUD$2.9K +pp (that's a bargain even before some of you consider the favourable exchange rate).
     
  18. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    Wrong. My daughter measured magnetism in the vinyl samples I gave her. In fact the sample I demagnetized with my cheap ebay industrial demagnetizer showed lower levels of magnetism than the untreated samples. So, in fact records can hold magnetism, but I'm not sure what kind of sonic difference there are with demagnetized vinyl.
     
  19. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    That begs the question, what kind of vinyl samples and what specific levels of magnetic flux were detected? A field of magnetic flux (generated by some other object) can pass through a vinyl LP quite easily if the field is strong enough, but that magnetic flux can't magnetize a vinyl LP in the process. A magnetic field does not interact with non-magnetically reactive substances, and that includes vinyl LPs. I'm really not sure what your daughter measured. The vinyl sample you provided - perhaps some special edition or collector's item deliberately and unplayable designed to include ferrous metal - would be very interesting to see. A standard LP record does not have a magnetic field, it can't be caused to generate a magnetic field, and it can't transfer or absorb a magnetic field from some other object. A standard LP can be charged with static electricity, but that is a completely different thing.
     
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  20. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
    You are confused and a bit out of your league. I can't argue with you because I am not a phd. in chemical engineering as is my daughter, and I won't bother my daughter with this again. I will say my daughter works/studies Magnetics specifically for a major company that pays big $$$. She has access to the finest measuring devices. Her conclusion was that vinyl from my Alan Parsons record did indeed measure magnetism and the treated sample had measured less magnetism.
     
  21. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I presume you're referring to Aluminum, which is in fact a paramagnetic material, then all depends on any magnetic field in your CDP. Of course if this is of any importance is where everyone may disagree about audible effects being detectable. I've never had any inclination to explore the question, however if anyone close enough wants to demonstrate I'd be happy to take the test.
     
  22. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Not confused; not out of my league. Not arguing either. Just asking some specific questions. You wrote an authoritative sounding post, elevated it by mentioning your daughter's credentials, and that's why I asked for some specifics. I didn't ask the questions to test you or any such thing, but rather only to understand exactly what was measured and what the specific results were. The reason for the two questions is that I've heard this kind of absolute assurance before about magnetic vinyl, only to find that the person insisting on it had gotten it completely wrong. And you still haven't answered the questions. If you aren't sure of the answers, no problem - just say so - but there's no need to be condescending.
     
  23. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Aluminum is very weakly paramagnetic. A paramagnetic material, specifically, is one that can be weakly affected by a magnetic field of sufficient density but that does cannot retain a magnetic field of its own. That's why I posted that somebody who actually had magnetized CDs or LPs would have much bigger problems than he thought. I wouldn't let any such weird CDs or LPs near any gear of mine.
     
  24. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I realise that but science normally starts with trying to explain the observable. You would imagine that the CD wouldn't retain any magnetism and therefore trying to remove it is nonsense but as I said I'm here to try the observable test.
     
  25. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

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