Anyone compared Rush Vapor Trails Vinyl to CD?

It is my understanding that when mastering for a vinyl release of an album that the technical limits reduce the amount of compression and clipping that are allowed.

With that said, has anyone compared the vinyl release of Rush VT to the CD version?

I'm FINALLY getting a turntable and would like it very much if I could pick up a vinyl copy of this album and actually be able to enjoy it...

 

My brother has it, and I've been meaning to borrow it and check it out. I'll let you know....

 

It CAN'T be worse, sonically, than the CD....

Evan

 

I'd heard that it was mixed with most of the limiting (or the dreaded "finalizer" plug-in) already put in. Such that the master, in whatever form it's in, is already mush. If the truth is otherwise, then it looks like I might actually be looking to get that album - in vinyl form.

 

We can only hope at this point Evan.

 

That was my understanding and hope, as well, but our resident mastering engineer, er, Steve, informed me that it could be cut to vinyl just as squished as it can to CD. They might have to reduce the overall volume or spread it out over several sides, but the dynamic range can still be steam rolled. Damn shame.

 

Can you explain, please?

 

Yes, sorry. LOUD signals on vinyl take up a lot of physical space. So you could quiet everything down and cram as much music on one side as possible, or you can spread it over several sides, meaning you keep the volume up, but you only have 2 or 3 tracks on each side, giving you more volume and more LPs. Making Vapor Trails a 2 or 3 or 4 disc set, depending on where you cut for side breaks. I don't know how long the album is, but I think around 20 minutes a side is preferable for the best sound. Steve could possibly give a better explanation, or correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

So no one has heard the vinyl here? I'm curious about the sound.

Sean

 

My brother should be loaning me his copy this week. I'll post clips and waveform-screenshots as soon as I get it.

 

Thanks Keith! I was wanting to pick this one up on vinyl, as I can't listen to the cd. I'll wait, and base my decision on your posted work.

 

By loud do you mean compressed, or do you mean cut at a high level?

Because todays 'LOUD' recordings can certainly be cut at a lower level. They'll still be just as overcompressed and flat sounding, just quieter.

 

Just scoped this at Red Trumpet...its listed as 2 LPs.

Has this been out for a while? I didn't know they had this on vinyl. I agree it would be pretty hard to suck worse than the CD.

Having said that, I double dipped with Aerosmith Honkin on Bobo (LP and CD), and to these ears they sound about the same...very bright and harsh. Not sure I want to jump on the LP until I hear reports for others.

BGL

 

Cut at a high level takes up more physical space. You are correct that they could cut todays heavily limited albums and cut them at a lower volume. As such, they would take up less physical space, but would be just as compressed and crap-tacular.

 

Here is 45 seconds of "One Little Victory" from LP. I realize that one of my channels is quieter than the other... that's a new development in my amp. Still, I think you can get a good feel for it.

I don't have the CD anymore, so I can't compare. While this is certainly a loud LP, I seem to recall that the CD is worse.

I await your comments... let me know if you want another sample to evaluate.

One Little Victory 8.2 MB WAV File

 

My initial impression, even when played through my crappy laptop speakers, is that this copy is much more listenable than the CD... however after listening to the same selection from the CD, I'm not so sure.

Here's the same selection on CD:

One Little Victory CD 8.1 MB Wav File

 

Normalized to the same average level (I'm sure you can guess which is which):

 

I've listened to these a few times on Sennheiser HD580...I do prefer the vinyl, but it's still a 'louder' production than I prefer. It doesn't sound great, just better.

 

While still loud, the vinyl is much more bearable than the CD.

Question: if the master is already mush from limiting and all that nasty stuff; what would they need to do in order to remaster this album properly? Would they need to go back to the multi tracks to remix and start over?

 

Great question and all I can say is I hope to goodness they didn't digitize the master, bypassing tape, and keep it like this.

 

Can anybody load up a clip of Santana's 'Supernatural' vinyl? Been wanting to compare.

 

Folks:

Thanks for the help. While the vinyl still isn't as close to perfect as we'd all like, it does seem clear that there's more dynamic range here and that it's not as loud as the CD. I'll be picking up a copy of this on vinyl...

Now if only that turntable would arrive....

 

Thanks for posting the CD clip... and thank you Michael for the visual comparison.

While I have this LP here, I'm making a needle drop.

 

If all the mixing was done in the computer, the could easily pull it back up on Pro Tools and dump it to DAT, tape, or WAV file again, only this time leaving that damn finalizer out of the equation.

 

OK, I just ordered a copy from Red Trumpet. Overall, I think this was a pretty good album but hard to listen to in the cd format. Hopefully the LP will get more play time in my system.