I'm thinking about upgrading my Fluance RT83. I thought a great deal about going direct drive because I do like to do groovewasher cleans with the disk spinning and I figure a direct drive table will handle that a little better than a belt. I have a few rules though, I need a removeable headshell, I need electronic speed control which obviously direct drives all have but the idea of changing a belt position to play a 45 to me is madness in 2022, I'd prefer a clean signal path with no pre amp, definitely don't want a USB on there. I know about the Audio Technica LP5X, it's kind of hollow, it seems cheap to me. The DJ tables, I don't want those features on my table at all, no pitch slider or lights. The Techniques 1500C looks like a good option, but I think the Dual looks like it might have a better designed tonearm and a better cartridge pre equipped for $100 less. I simply have no experience with Dual products. Dual CS 618Q Manual HiFi-Turntable — Just Audio (shopjustaudio.com)
Seems like a nice table from reading about it and looking at pictures. But note there are three finishes, the vinyl wrapped MDF is$1099, but the gloss black or walnut veneer versions are $1299 (the walnut veneer would be my choice, but that does move the price above the Technics SL-1500). It's obviously not just another version of the Thorens TD402DD, not sure which factory is producing these, but looks like a well specified design, both arm lift and motor stop at end of side. The W&F specs are a bit high for a quality direct drive, but may be using different weighting. They talk about coreless inductors in the motor description, not sure if that is meant to imply the motor is coreless, or a reference to power filtering, not enough info. In any case, it is new so not much info around yet, I think they do have a long warranty, but haven't seen the details. Nice to see some new options in this price range...
Let me ask you. I use the Groove washer pad and spray on fluid for some cleanings and find it really effective for spot cleaning after a few plays. I feel like it's a little better for the record for me to just let it spin on the turntable and apply a little light pressure that way I'm going with the grooves and not handling the record anymore than I have to, but I don't feel like my belt table is really designed for this, not that I've had any real issues. Do you ever do a spot clean of more than a brush on the table? How's the torque feel and overall quality of the drive feel? I also notice they put two pairs of RCA outs on the back. I imagine that's so they can get the built in pre amp totally out of the way of the signal path if you don't want to use it. I'm pretty happy with the MM preamp on my Arcam SA20, I actually find it to have a really nice tone compared to a couple other things I have tried but I don't want to muddy up the signal with some defeatable pre amp that hasn't been isolated properly. That's the one thing the Fluance does really well, every model from the RT82 and up has a servo control, and no preamp in the chain so a really nice clean signal out. The 1500C is on my short list. I'm kind of a weird consumer because I want something "audiophile" but I want a couple features that are rarely featured on those tables, mainly a removeable headshell and now a direct drive.
I'm REALLY interested in the 1500C as a second table. Any issues with it so far? Do you know the approx. tonearm effective mass? I'm wondering what range of cartridges it can handle, but damn looks like a really solid table, and love its simple clean look. Also, I've never owned a direct drive, seems this would be a great one to try out. Sorry, don't want to threadjack the Dual CS.
It looks a lot like a Ya Horng designed table similar to the Fluance and ATLP5,LP7. Tonearms differ by model.
Ya Horng may be the manufacturer (I think it is actually Hanpin), but it's a new direct drive and I don't really see the similarity to any of the Fluance or AT belt drive tables. Whether that is due to Dual specifying the design, or the manufacturer having unique parts already available, I don't know, but Alfred Langer (dualfred in thread linked below) has talked some about the design with regard to the parts he directly specified. And it does apparently use one of the flat wound coil coreless motors as opposed to the older style iron-core motors seen on many of the Chinese OEM products. I'm sure we will see more info soon now that it's in the marketplace. I doubt it's anything that special, but looks like a solid table, especially if you don't like the die-cast aluminum and plastic style of many of the other direct drives in the market, the walnut does have a nice and warm vintage appeal to many. Dual 618Q - Dual-Board.de
I use the Audio Technica version of the Groovewasher (AT6012) w/ LP's spinning on the platter and the 1500C doesn't care. Too much pressure will slow it down but the torque of Technics' direct drive is steady and consistent. It only takes a second for the platter to stabilize at whatever speed you choose. I set mine to "78" for a quick pre-play wipe when necessary and it trucks along merrily. The push button speed select is excellent. On a different topic, but just to encourage this habit, getting a decent record cleaning vacuum is a really wise investment if you want to invest in LP's that sound their best. They don't have to be expensive. I've been amazed by how good of a job my Squeaky Clean can do considering how simple it is (you supply the shop-vac). I also picked up a Humminguru ultrasonic cleaner over Christmas and it's a slick little unit. And yes, the preamp circuitry on the 1500C is completely separated from the phono outputs. It is 100% bypassed/defeated when not in use, including the grounding. In complete honesty it took me two 1500C's to get the one I have. The first one I received had a platter that didn't spin flat enough for me so I ordered another and it's been nothing but wonderful. No other issues at all. I've been using mine for 3-4 hours a day for the past couple of years and it just delivers. I added the KAB TD-1000 tonearm damper to mine and I strongly encourage everyone with a Technics table to consider the KAB damper. It's a killer add-on and looks stock. It's one of the few "accessories" that I have purchased that I feel made a profound and undeniable improvement to the sound of the music. Plus it improves tracking and cueing. It's a winner. I won't be surprised if I'm wrong but I think I remember the effective mass for the modern Technics arms being calculated at ~15 grams.
I noticed Andrew Robinson had a shot of it in one of his recent videos. Guess at some point he'll do an actual dedicated review.
I finally got to touch one of these at Just Audio in Baltimore. It's not well built. In fact the entire new line from Dual feels cheap. I don't think it's a very good brand re launch, they are just plastering a once great name on a lot of sub standard far east made product.
Get the Technics, thank me later. I would go SL-1200 Mk 7 or buy the GR and be done with it. The angled headshells are a turn-off on that Dual. I run the SL-1200 Mk 2 as my daily main turntable. I have a Dual, a real Dual. A 1019 automatic. Dual then was at their peak.
Sure glad I got the last one at Crutchfield. That's a really long wait for the restock. Could be a typo though I suppose. Maybe they mean 1/6.
The 618q is on my list. I have a vintage 721 that I've wanted to upgrade. It has been a great turntable, and functions nearly flawlessly, although it has a bit more surface noise than other turntables I've used. I recently purchased the CS 429 (fully automatic) for my daughter...A Christmas present I'm going to surprise her with. I did compare them side by side to hear the difference between something new, belt driven, and a different stylus, etc. Honestly, they both sounded great, although I think the 721 had a softer, warmer sound, but very subtle. I contribute this to the Grado. I'm not the biggest fan of the ortofon 2m red, it's very detailed and has a good amount of soundstage, but it sounds a bit compressed and doesn't track sibilance all that great, I may upgrade it to the blue down the line. All that being said, the CS 429 functions flawlessly, is super quite, and is built very well. I'm very impressed! Oh, I got a great deal of info on current Dual products from this YouTube Video. Cheers.
I'm not familiar with this particular model, but I do know that there are different Dual brands. One in China that does produce cheaper tables and the original Dual im Schwarzwald Germany. The models that are being produced there carry "CS" and are way more expensive. To me it seems those German produced tables are a good alternative for the Technics tables. Back in the late seventies, early eighties most of us in western Europe either had a Technics or a Dual table. I'm still using a refurbished Dual 704 from 1976 and it sounds great. Makes me wonder if these newer models will last as long as the ones from yesterday.
I bought a 704 back in the day, brand new from Pacific Stereo. Unfortunately I didn't keep it. I gave it to hi-fi store for some store credit back in the mid-1990s. I think they gave me $35 for the mint condition turntable. I even had it in the box still. Dumb just Dumb.
Back in stock at Crutchfield if anyone is interested... In stock $1,099.99 Sale: -$100.00 off Sale: ends 1/5
