Some of the comments here are the usual OTP statements. The original Marino remasters had only a slight volume boost and exhibit no compression artifacts. For example, “Whole Lotta Love” RMS volume is -19.2 on the original 80's CD and is -17.3 on the remaster (complete Box Set) for a whooping difference of 1.9 dB’s. This is fairly typical throughout the set. The more recent SHM discs use the Marino masterings but they have been tweaked a little - i.e., the same “WLL” track is boosted by another 1dB to -16.3. The Marino remasters do have some EQ tweaks, but they sound beneficial to these ears and not at all harsh. The drums have much more impact and there has been a veil lifted. Please do a search, as this has been discussed in great detail in previous threads. I’m sure that Stefan will chime in here with more detail.
I previously owned the 94 Remasters,and was never really happy with the sound of them (esp. HOTH). They seemed to lack a certain something that I was used to hearing on the vinyl (which is the only way I had ever owned the Zep catalog previously). The Diaments (plus the Sidore IV) just seemed closer to the sound of the vinyl to these ears, both tonally and in terms of dynamics. Also keep in mind the 94 remaster of IV has a shortened "Going To California".
Elitists? Are you looking for an argument? I prefer the original discs to the '94 remasters, so I'm an elitist?
I think the mastering experts here would say that those LP cutting masters (and the like) that were used so often in the '80s are not objectively bad. Somebody here (maybe Steve) pointed out that, sure, it might be an EQ'd copy, but probably the copy was created (in those days) by a knowledgeable professional in the analog domain. If the tape copy was not heavily EQ'd and made with care, and used to make a CD mastered "flat" from that source, then that might be far better than a digitally futzed, compressed mastering from the original master tapes. Maybe. P.S. I think the Marino remasters sound pretty good.
SOONERFAN Welcome to the forum. Please consider filling out your profile so we can see your stereo components. I personally have found that as I improved my system (partly with SH member Barry Diament's help, btw) that the original masterings from the 80's just keep getting better. Much better!! A pretty darn good system can create quite a wonderful live feeling on most tracks. And you can turn it up loud and love every minute of it. You may find that folks with low-fi systems really don't care to consider if their view of a mastering is due to system shortcomings (very likely) or to the mastering itself. For the life of me, I can't figure out why this so hard for some to get their arms around!! And no, I'm not an elitist. Perhaps a realist? And definitely someone who enjoys discovering something new. Curiosity and an open mind....is that elitist? I would go as far as to recommend the 32XD Japan 1st pressings for these. May take some time to find the right prices, but it may be worth it in the long run. (PS: remember Pat White? LOL. Go 'Eers!!)
Sorry, but delving deeper into this here will only melt your brain. Best you just sample a copy of each edition and see what floats your boat. I've got the SHM-CD set which I think is great. Some people read "SHM" and trash it without hearing it, sad but true. I used to have the Diaments years ago, got the remastered sets when they came out and liked the sound. Whether that's right or wrong, it's what I like. That's pretty much what it comes down to. You'll get many differing opinions here, some biased, some not. At the end of the day, the only ears you have to please are yours, whether you do that with remasters, SHMs or the "Hoffman forum approved" editions is your call.
If I were you I would get one copy of the remaster and original for a single album by Zep. Figure out which one sounds best to you and get the rest from that set of discs. If you are a collector like me you may want them all, sound be damned. Define "low-fi system".
In stores I have visited the originals cost less than the remasters. So because I think the $6.99 original Zepp II and III trashes the $9.99 remasters I am an elitest. WTF! Like I said many here have agenda's hidden or otherwise Of course could simply be a troll, if true please delete this post as I'd hate to feed one.
How about, you just prefer the 80's masterings instead? You can find people with, as good as, if not better, systems than you who prefer a different mastering. Please see the previous Led Zep threads or just about any Beatles remaster thread for evidence of that.
Thios makes total sense however the response will probably be that those people with the mega systems who do not prefer the early discs are "tone-deaf".
IIRC, the biggest difference between the originals and remasters was with "Houses of the Holy" and the least difference was with "Physical Graffiti."
Sange, can you just drop this line of conversation in this thread? One can easily see OTP statements from either side of the fence on these discs. You used the word “kill” to describe your preference and I think that certainly sounds like someone with agenda to me when comparing these discs. Most of them are simply not that different when properly level matched.
I think the point to consider is that as a system improves, "grail" CDs will become more and more revealing. It is nearly shocking as one gets closer to musical truth. The various debates on this forum would be much more informative if everyone realized that our playback systems are sometimes to blame and not the proposed "grail" mastering. Why do people get insulted when it is suggested that it could be their system's inability to properly resolve and present a recording? In fact, if someone told me that, I'd take the opportunity to see if they were right. Maybe learn something new!? <gasp> Barry Diament himself instructed me as what I should do with my speaker positioning, for example. I didn't believe him, but one day I said "screw it" and did exactly what he said. Wow, I was shocked!! And happy I didn't get insulted at the idea that I didn't know everything. <gasp> Generally, I agree that the OP should pick up a used copy of each to do his own test. But the OP may also be someone who is able to invest time and money into better gear over the course of the next decade. In that case, I think it's important to keep an open mind....
I dont see your name anywhere in my link, so you might want to check the self importance..... Ive read through enough of the Zeppelin threads to understand that people who usually whine about the slightest imperfection in any mastering, for whatever reason, sweep the reverse channels on the Zep original CD's (S/T and III) under the rug. Maybe because the guy who mastered them is a regular contributor here. I just think its kind of hypocritical and should be mentioned. I certainly wouldnt have wasted my time and money on the original S/T when I first started posting here if someone had been kind enough to mention that is was backwards...
Wow... So, the OP can see here that there may just be a situation where a forum member has never even heard the original masters the way that they are able to be heard. And did the forum member care to point this out? No. Is it so hard to believe that a CD could sound so different on a nice system? I don't know about this elitism thing, but I'd ask the OP to keep an open mind....else u may never discover all there is to hear....
To be quite frank, and with no disrespect to Mr Diament; why should I care? The bottom line is that theyre backwards, and that is all I would care about if I were considering the purchase of the albums I mentioned. Dont get me wrong; his versions of II, Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffiti and In Through the Out Door are very nice and those are the only copies I own. But you shouldnt recommend the S/T and III without a disclaimer of sorts. I'm sure it wouldnt hurt anyones feelings...
I just checked, the channels on my original III match my 1994 remaster. According to this thread there are wrong and right channel version's of the original, remasters, and even vinyl. So it is nowhere near the absolute as your statement would have one believe. Judging by the poll in the thread 75 of 88 (85.2%) people have an original CD with correct channels. What should the disclaimer be "Warning you have a 14.8% chance of getting a version with incorrect channels"? Does that pass muster with you?? Also do you now require a disclaimer if one recommends the vinyl, since 17.25% has the wrong channel placement??? http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2506
The bottom line is that they do exist and that information should be passed along. Just as people should be warned that the Classic Records LP have reversed channels on the S/T too. Thats all.
\ They should also be warned that some remasters have the wrong channels as well. As mixed up as III is on various version and media says to me most people will have no idea which is wrong or right. eelkiller, you point is a good one.
I`ve never been completely satisfied with either the Diaments or the 1990/93 Marinos.I wish someone like Barry or Steve gave them an overhaul.As far as the channels being correct,I`ve been listening for so long they don`t sound wrong anymore,even if they actually are.
Some of the early and reissue vinyl releases also use the "reverse channel" tapes. There are two tapes out there. Barry has said that if he knew the album better at the time he could have asked for another tape or made the channel switch. This is a matter of NOT switching the channels and using the tape supplied. Some of the songs from Zeppelin 1 found on the Page/Marino Zep compilations use reversed channels. There is a thread with the info. If I can find it I will post the list. I believe the Zeppelin III with reversed channels have different EAC. This has been futzed with after the fact. I agree that if a mistake is made it should be pointed out (and there are a few recent ones), but let's get the info correct first. EDIT: found it. *** I don't burn CD-Rs, but I do have a reverse switch on my amp. Easy as pie for me to fix.
I only liked the first two Led Zeppelin's, but I have 5 different versions of each and the SHM's sound best to me.